Chen’s comeback bad for China, says coach Yongbo

Discussion in 'Asian Continental Championships 2007' started by Dimplex, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. Shiryu

    Shiryu Regular Member

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    Just because someone is in their 30's, doesn't mean we can just discard them as like some old useless rag. With age come maturity, experience, and the ability to deal with pressure.

    Don't forget with the 21 point system, the match doesn't last as long. It is suppose to give the more seasoned players an edge.
     
  2. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I don't think it's a simple matter of CHN might get a few less medals, with CH now competing on his own.

    I think what LYB feel upset is more like "CH" to set an example for the younger generation. If CH continues his success, and gain a lot of $$$ for his own, what you think the existing or upcoming national team members will think? And remember, they can all use injuries as an excuse to retire, and leave some "juice" in themselves, and come back to make their $$$.

    I know LYB is not a fan favorite, but we need to understand his situation. He and his staffs (of course, with funding from the nation) put huge investment on the players. Now, only to watch the players walk out of the door, and start their own business (play as an individual). If you are a boss, and you spend so much time and $$$ to train your workers, only to see them walk away upon graduation, and start their own business to compete with you. How you feel? :eek:
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Once LYB said "break", means he's an a$$... Once other ppl said it, fans like you find all the "reasonable excuses"...

    Now, I really feel for LYB. :(
     
  4. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Please, we are not doing a lecture here, and we are not lawyers. How people speak, in what tones, only themselves or the close ones will know. Judge a person's statement because you "get used to " or "never heard about it" is nowhere near to be accurate.

    Many ppl jokes around their friends, with the word like "I kick you butt", "burn ur house down" or "chop your xxx off". Do you think they are really doing a bloody battle, and we should call cops? Of course not. :eek:
     
  5. Shiryu

    Shiryu Regular Member

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    Classic case of double standard.

    But every drama needs a villain.

    It's true that CH's playing for himself now maybe bad for the Chinese team and sets a bad example for their younger players. But just because the country trained the player, does it mean the player has to play for the country for the rest of his playing life? Is there a contract?

    It's a clash between "all for one; one for all" and "everyone for themselves" mentality. and if I may stretch even further, "communism" vs "captialism" ideals. Those of us that lives in the "free" world sees nothing wrong with CH's move. But for those grew up under the iron fist, it is nothing but betrayal.


     
  6. Eurasian =--(O)

    Eurasian =--(O) Regular Member

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    I agree with s1nn3r. More professional sports like tennis, basketball, hockey, have players who train on thier own at thier own clubs. I think thats why olympics and thomas cups are so big. The players who train on their own are chosen and put together to form the best team possible to represent thier countries at the above events.
     
  7. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Yep. That was what I tried to say in Post #65 point 2, but you put it better than me:)
     
  8. ye333

    ye333 Regular Member

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    Man you are doing exactly what you are blaming me for. You are trying to "judge" my "judgement" of LYB using your own experience. Ppl has to judge ppl using his/her own experience, otherwise no judgment can be ever made, and there is no point to have a forum. And remember I did say there is a possibility that LYB has just added a new usage of "da3duan4".

    As to the LYB case, LCW himself complained. Are you saying it's LCW's fault because he is not good enough at Mandarin or something? And furthermroe what is LYB's response? He said "I didn't say it!". He didn't use "It means to run him around" or any similar excuses. So it's pretty clear that LYB himself does not think "da3duan4tui3" is a natural instruction to his proteges.

    Also the LYB case is very different from your examples. It's more like you say to your friend "I will burn your house down" in a tone that your friend got disturbed and scared.

     
  9. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    Nod, your point #2 is the key point that LYB is afraid of.
     
  10. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    An another thing, I just thought of along the lines of the other players.

    If LYB had 4 other MS players who could Beat CH, and other younger players looking capable would he be concerned? not really. The fact that he doesn't have many players coming through must be a concern for LYB:

    -With no Disrespect to CJ he is not the same level that CH, LD, BCL are and were when they broke through. Granted he is still young, but not that young.

    -CY was always the nearly man, until the others retire and he is coming up (IMHO he hasn't improved, the new boys are just not as good)

    -Gong Weijie who came up with CJ has moved to doubles (pretty unsuccessfully to date)

    -I can't see any others likely to come through at the moment. Normally we would look at the 17-19 age bracket (at that age CH/LD/BCL were in Finals)
     
  11. Shifty

    Shifty Regular Member

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    Lu Qicheng? but everything comes down to whether CH can last, because if he doesn't, it doesn't matter who suppresses him, cos LD can do it until CH retires truely. if you think about, CH has usually lost to LD, and will keep doing it as he degrades faster than LD as his age gets bigger.
     
  12. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    1. It's true that none of us have any evidence. However, if I don't know something, I try to keep my mouth shut. But you are the one of the 1st several jumped out and accuse LYB. And all your analysis of "da duan" whatever, is typically "let me take a side 1st, then find my excuses".

    2. LYB did deny it, because LCW said he felt LYB really want to hurt him. Of course LYB deny it, if he really just mean the "strategy", of course, with a bad tone in an very emotional situation. Let me ask you, if I accuse you somethng, but you never did it, do you stand up and defend yourself? :eek:
     
  13. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I don't want to add oil to the fire, but some how, the more topics I read regarding LYB or CHN team, the more I got pissed off.

    1st, let me defend myself. If ppl here long enough, they know my favorite MD players are Sigit and Tony G, my favorite WS player are Susi and Gong ZC. Never to metion, I was once pissed off my local group, because I was the only one cheered and cried, when Demark lost the TC to CHN. So, please don't use the "narrow mind" to describe me.

    Somehow, I think the main reason a lot of ppl jumping out (with a report, rather than confirmed sources) to "support" CH, is NOT because they really like him (remind me if I am wrong, when CH was #1 in 2003 or so, I heard overwhelming things about whether he's not good, too weak, too simple in game play, etc). Suddenly, CH becomes a "fan's favorite", simply because a lot of LOSERS here (yeah, I mean losers) think CH will now take several more medals away from CHN team. How sick is that and how sad is that??? :mad: Come on, you lose your hope to your local players, and only pray other teams get some "internal conflicts"??? That's really "sportsmanship".

    Not to take away any credits away from CH. I know it's a hard decision for him, as he still wants to play, and gain some $$$ for his family. However, I have to say, his decision somehow is very "selfish". Please don't give me all the "freedom vs. communist" talk. Let me put this way, when CH got into the sportschool, then, city team, providance team, then national team, he was fully aware about his decision (ok, maybe not when he was 5 yrs old, but you tell me he did not know anything even when he's 20s?). The decision is, to take the sponsorship from government, and train hard. To me, it's like an contract. You gain some, you lose some. Ppl only looked at the gems CHN team have. However, do you see the investments? There are 200+ national team members, how many of them even can be in Team I? So, 90% of them, just become ordinary ppl like you or me. Do they need to re-pay the $$$ to the government, because they are not as good? No. Instead, many of them get free education, free training, and even job referrals. They got all that, because they got the potential, and the government is very well noticed that the return ratio is low, but they decide to do so.

    Take a look at CH. He knows this. I don't mind if he "retire" when he was, say 16 or 18 (don't tell me he still does not know "there's no free lunch" when he's 18). Then, continue on with training, coaching and tournies with HIS OWN cost. If he can be a top gun, I show fully support to his decision. Now, what the hell is this? Ok, you fully took "free ride" with all the benefit, and become a star. Now, you suddenly jump out and say, "I have my freedom". Give me a break... CH, sorry to say, you lost my respect and support in a big way... :mad:

    Don't give me the crap about "other nations / players". A lot of the western players, they train on their own, or a significant % of them own, especially when they were young and still a no name. I don't mind they say, "I have my freedom", because they were on their own to begin with. CH and rest of CHN team members are different. They stay quiet when they need the "free $$$" and obey the rules, and suddenly, they want their "freedom" now???
     
    #113 LazyBuddy, Apr 16, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  14. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Sure, audience point of view. How many of us here really think about the coach / player / team point of view?

    Yes, we paid for the tickets. However, the players are not robot, the coaches need to face the media and "not perfect" rules / expectations / salary & bonus distributions... Do we at least, feel some for the "workers", before finger pointing???

    Can we do less "me, me, me...", and think about a bit more of "others"? :mad:
     
  15. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    Lei, did you wake up from the wrong side of bed this morning? :p
     
  16. DinkAlot

    DinkAlot dcbadminton
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    But this is the instant gratification era, it's all about "Me! Me! Me! Me! Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" *voice cracks*




    ;)
     
  17. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    A tought day for sure. I think I took fire cracker for lunch today. ;)
     
  18. angelatby

    angelatby Regular Member

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    Yeah, if you read back my most recent post, i did mention about CH's action in giving a bad example to the juniors, but but BUT that is one of the reasons only. Please, LYB neednt afraid about what competition that CH will snatch all the medals away. I suppose you are only looking from ONE perspective but NOT the whole scenario. LOL, LYB has many players who can win over CH, you name it, they did before. By thinking that CH playing outside China Team is a beginning point of China's team rivalry, how much sense does it makes? They are all professionals and are mature to know that TOP PLAYERS will probably becoming COACH (if they want it), other than CH's case where he becoming a free-agent to still playing badminton (not for own team). If CH becoming a coach for other countries, he too has become a competitor to LYB. So, how do you see this? LOL !
     
    #118 angelatby, Apr 16, 2007
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  19. angelatby

    angelatby Regular Member

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    Again, i only re-interpreted back about Jimbo's comment. You gotta read his implied conclusion from the beginning as it is all linked from one to another. Thanks !
     
  20. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    All this talk of CH un-retiring and playing competitively again bodes well for badminton and fans in us to continue to see world class badminton...as for him being non-patriotic and continues to compete, well let's face it there is no room in CHN squad for CH, as great a player as he is, he is not getting any younger...since CH wants to play and earn some dough before he gets to geezer age like me, who can blame him...hey, CHN needs some competition, with CHN playing independently, he is under no obligation to "lose" any game just some coaches told him to pass over...am I bashing CHN, heck! no!...I am praising CHN prowess and domination, giving LYB full respect for fielding such a world dominant squad which the rest of the world, probably with the exception of Mr. TH, cannot counter.
     

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