Disappointing Order of Play

Discussion in 'Sudirman Cup 2007' started by cooler, Jun 17, 2007.

  1. robin7

    robin7 Regular Member

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    Tennis is way ahead of badminton in many aspects such as prize money, camera replay system, match statistics, TV coverage etc.

    Talking about prize money, Wimbledon 2007 for 5 events totaled to £11,282,710 while All England 2007 amounted to only USD200,000. Prize money in Tennis, Wimbledon, for instance, keeps on increasing every year. Look at All England, for example, it has remained unchanged in the past ten years in prize money. I think that's the main reason why badminton is less popular than tennis in countries outside Asia.

    Instant replay system has been implemented in gymnastics and has made judging more transparent. The Hawk-Eye replay system has made its debut in tennis since last US Open. When will badminton follow suit?

    Match statistics in tennis is more informative and comprehensive than those in badminton. We don't see the fastest smash and the longest rally being recorded in badminton's match statistics, do we?

    In terms of TV coverage, tennis has it broadcasted thru TV on all the Grand Slams and other master series since round 1 till the finals. Tennis even has the tournament previews such as Legends of Wimbledon, Wimbledon Classic and so on. Badminton, on the other hand, only has it broadcasted quarterfinals onwards on major tournaments such as All England and World Championship.

    There are a lot more that BWF has to do in order to prevent badminton from being removed from Olympics in the future.
     
    #61 robin7, Jun 19, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  2. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    Did the random draw for the SC final bring more surprises to the tournament? CHN is expected to win even if MS were played first. Ask any fan what they look forward to most and chances are the answer would be the LD-TH clash because it does not happen often in SS and TEAM tournaments are about the only opportunities to have these two meet. Already LCW-TH and LCW-PG matches did not materialise and that is bad enough.The only consolation is the LCW-LD match.
    Randomness is fairest but may not deliver the sparkle. As we know,that resulted in disappointment to most fans in this SC. The real measure of a tournament's success is the quality of its best matches and we know that is likely to come from the top MS because the kind of badminton they play is out of this world.
     
  3. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    The following is the regulation for Thomas and Uber Cups. Note the importance placed on S1 and S2 (S1 is always the first match, and S2 is at the least the 3rd match). Singles must also be played in order while for doubles, the second pair can play before the first. Also, if a player is involved in two matches, he/she must play the singles match first.

    14. ORDER OF PLAY
    14.1 There are eight permissible orders of play:
    14.1.1 First singles - first doubles - second singles - second doubles - third singles
    14.1.2 First singles - second doubles - second singles - first doubles - third singles
    14.1.3 First singles - second singles - first doubles - third singles - second doubles
    14.1.4 First singles - second singles - second doubles - third singles - first doubles
    14.1.5 First singles - second singles - third singles - first doubles - second doubles
    14.1.6 First singles - second singles - third singles - second doubles - first doubles
    14.1.7 First singles - first doubles - second singles - third singles – second doubles
    14.1.8 First singles - second doubles - second singles - third singles – first doubles.
    14.2Determining order of play
    14.2.1 Orders of play 14.1.1 to 14.1.8 will be considered in turn and the first order of play will be used which has
    no player playing in two consecutive matches or playing doubles before singles.
    14.2.2 If all eight orders of play, 14.1.1 to 14.1.8 result in a player playing in two consecutive matches or playing
    doubles before singles, order of play 14.1.5 will be used.
    14.3 Any player participating in two matches is entitled to a minimum interval of 30 minutes between them.
     
  4. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    Either it's a random draw, or the team managers agree on the order. How else would you decide the order? If the tournament director decides on the order, accusations can fly. Even though theorectically the match order is inconsequential, but psychologically, it can make a difference.
     
  5. nanofans

    nanofans Regular Member

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    Theoriotically it works. But that's not the way professional games played.
    Hours before the game, players should be prepared from their diet to their warm-ups strictly according to the schedule. Getting into the mood too early or too late? Sorry, you are dead unless you are fighting amateurs.
    The worst case under your game rule would be a continuously warming-up LD or TH up to 3~4 hours! Imagine that.
     
    #65 nanofans, Jun 19, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  6. beauty

    beauty Regular Member

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    It is still like that. When team managers give the names of the players, they also suggest the order of play. If there is disagreement, then is the draw. So it just happened that MS should be last.
     
  7. beauty

    beauty Regular Member

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    The problem is with tv planning. They would never go for coverage without actually knowing who and when is going to play. Mostly it is their decision which court/which match they are going to televise. So quite often in the hall it is necessary to move ties or matches from court to court just because tv. And we can again speak - is it fair to other nations ? Some matches from lower divisions were actually more interesting than one sided matches of top group.
     
  8. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the solution then is to "somehow" increase the price money. if badminton tournament has US$1mil+ prize money, we will very soon see a lot of motivated independent players into the badminton scene, and potentially see the beginning of the end of state-base training.

    but as you see, i have to put a quote around the "somehow", much easier said than done.
     
  9. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

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    Fans pay ticket to go to watch a sport tournament and not a movie, hint that in the individual event we don't even know who are the finalists until the day before, why should we make exception to the team event to pre-order matches to please fans???

    I wouldn't allow this to happen too if I am LYB, and to eliminate that slim chance for Indo to win, cause LYB's task is simply to win the tournament and nothing else. But if TH did beat LD in the first match who knows what would happen to the Chinese and Indo team's morale, and that certainly can bring surprises. That's why I suggest random draw and I think that is most fair for teams and fans.
     
  10. wirre

    wirre Regular Member

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    I call you cry babies ;)

    I can understand that some (most) would want to see a LD vs Taufik clash.
    But for the tournament, honor and glory of Sudirman do you think a WS as a decider would've been better? If playing MS earlier anyone could've won a spectacular match that in the end meant nothing for the championship.....

    Now I think the draw was quite good for INA and the spectators. *If* INA had managed to get two points (from XD and MD) then there would've been the titans sealing the whole championship.

    This is how i would rank the chances in a decider:
    WS and WD, barring injury, secure win for China. XD and MD, open for upsets but given expected strength and recent forms China as clear favourites. MS, usually pretty much an even game, but due to displayed performance during SC I think most would hold Taufik as favourite.

    Of course the dream draw for INA would've been 1) MD/XD 2) XD/MD 3) MS . With a very small but still possible chance to get a 3-0 win. But as soon as they lose one of this three it is all over.....and then everyone would be complaining about boring and meaningless finish with China destroying INA in WD and WS :D
     
  11. Angelou

    Angelou Regular Member

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    Well Terrence, first off please don't take any offense in what I have to say. These are just my thoughts. But When you talk about bowing and punishment, I believe that was the traditional way that students were taught in China. To respect your teachers and elders. Punishment is more of a motivation in my opinion. Your there to be the best and learn. And thus if you can't handle the pressure, then there's really no point in you being in the Chinese team. Attaining a high standard is what the goal is. If you don't win, then your pretty much forced to reflect on it. which is the purpose of punishment. And really, these players are receiving training from some of the best coaches out there. Bowing down to them, is a sign of respect and not slavery. If there isn't respect between the coach and the player, then the coach can care less about the player. But if the player respects the coach and vice versa. Then they'll work hard TOGETHER, in order to attain their goals.

    Lin Dan tries hard and respects his coaches. And that's probably part of why there was such a dispute. Lin Dan, get to play all these matches, but what about all the other team members who train hard. Shouldn't they get a chance? If Lin Dan isn't performing, then isn't this a chance to give to others the opportunity? It can be quite heart quenching for coaches.

    Being able to listen to criticism is a virtue. Not many people can take it in because it's pretty much saying "you suck". But it is also saying here's a fault now what are you going to do about it? The hard part about criticism is that people often use a harsh tone with it as well, but that's life. And I think that's what the Chinese players do. They listen and take in the criticism, despite the tone. They keep learning from their mistakes even if they win. And your right ! winning isn't everything, learning from what happened and acting upon is also quite significant.

    On a different point, Chen Hong got his training from the Chinese coaching staff. though he can relax and play the way he wants, he no longer does the kind of training he did in the Chinese Camp. And thus, I think the results are quite obvious. Though he may have the mental side of his game, he doesn't have the same physical side he did in the past. And if he doesn't have much physical to work with then his options will be limited as well. And so you can't really say Chen Hong is better off the way he is. You can say he's happier and that's great don't get me wrong. But in terms of results, you might see him spike here and there but that depends how he prepares.
     
  12. will_kit

    will_kit Regular Member

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    He looks like that in all tournament...I never expect this guy to even moved his mouth even a couple of mm...he looks like a vampire even when he is lifting a champion trophy....I think he should be coached to smile....
     

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