When will China's dominance end?

[cooler]

Its hard to demolish China's dominance in this Sport. If they go down.. they will surely rise up again.

is that your new theory - 'what go down must come up'?

 

[xbro88]

is that your new theory - 'what go down must come up'?

then what go up must come down also
Newton's law of gravity...

 

[LazyBuddy]

CHN's success in this sport is of course a combo of factors. One of the tricky factor I can think, is the economic structure, which lead to the governmental aid.

I used to read an article about gymnastics, which I also think similarly applied to badminton. The athletes said that in CHN, the government pays for all the training need, even the athletes' salaries, if they reach certain level. In the western world, most athletes need to pay for their own trainings, which means they need a "real" job to support their livings. With the fairly low living cost and salary requests in CHN, it's possible for the government to support the atheltes. Such theory can hardly come to be true for most western nations, as it's simply way too expensive.

 

[dlp]

I don't believe China are dominating more than ever:

MS: China didnt do anything at olympics and didnt get last WC, however they have consistently got 3 or 4 players in top 8 which means they have a great chance if LCW or Taufik don't perform to best. More depth need from other countries...

WS: They may have the top 2 and Mia has retired but 5 years ago they probably had 4 out of top 5, if ZN retires it might be quite open

WD: The other countries have a lot of catching up to do, other countries women simply don't possess necessary physical abilities to beat CHN, but 21 point should give a chance

MXD: China look quite weak compared to at the last olympics and 21 point doesnt suit them

MENS: Yes they have the no.1 pair, but at AE 2006 Malaysia looked great but again have failed to perform at WC. Denmark are undergoing transition period but Mogenson could be a force, INA and KOR should get their act together soon.

Its not like China are unbeatable , especially with 21 pts but other countries need to step it up

 

[Wong8Egg]

How do we define the level of dominance? China can up against with the rest of the world in any category with good result.

I don't like to admit, but I think China is indeed dominating the world of badminton and in the foreseeing future.

 

[Chu Liuxiang]

CHN's success in this sport is of course a combo of factors. One of the tricky factor I can think, is the economic structure, which lead to the governmental aid.

I used to read an article about gymnastics, which I also think similarly applied to badminton. The athletes said that in CHN, the government pays for all the training need, even the athletes' salaries, if they reach certain level. In the western world, most athletes need to pay for their own trainings, which means they need a "real" job to support their livings. With the fairly low living cost and salary requests in CHN, it's possible for the government to support the atheltes. Such theory can hardly come to be true for most western nations, as it's simply way too expensive.

I think most of Chinese athletes earn a big portion of their income from prize money and advertisement income. Their salary is too low. For examples, Lin Dan's salary is only about USD200.00 in year 2004 or 2005. But his contract of KFC advertisement brings him RMB2 million whereby RMB600,000 goes to Lin Dan.
Cost of living in Beijing or Shanghai is much lower comparing to the US but it is really not that low if comparing to other Asian cities beside Japan. One night staying in Shanghai Hilton hotel for a standard room cost us about USD250.00/night.

 

[LazyBuddy]

I think most of Chinese athletes earn a big portion of their income from prize money and advertisement income. Their salary is too low. For examples, Lin Dan's salary is only about USD200.00 in year 2004 or 2005. But his contract of KFC advertisement brings him RMB2 million whereby RMB600,000 goes to Lin Dan.
Cost of living in Beijing or Shanghai is much lower comparing to the US but it is really not that low if comparing to other Asian cities beside Japan. One night staying in Shanghai Hilton hotel for a standard room cost us about USD250.00/night.

I think you missed my point.

What I was referring was not the super stars, who are entitled for "extra" income. I was more referring to an ordinary, say a "no name" national team player, who mostly live based on his/her monthly salary.

Yes, USD200 is low, but the living cost in CHN is also low. USD200 is an acceptable income for an ordinary person, consider s/he is only 20s. Even the college graduates are not guaranteed to make more than RMB1500 per month (USD175 around). Therefore, a CHN player can make an ok living, if s/he chooses badminton as a career. After s/he retire as a competitive player, s/he can apply for a badminton replated job (etc coaching) in school/city/providence even national level, depends on his/her ability.

However, such thing will not happen to most of the wester world, where living cost is much higher. For example, I was once told a coach for US national team's annual salary is around USD$20,000. For such amount, it's considered as a very low income, and hardly can earn an "acceptable" living. Even a HS student work in KFC might earn more than that, if s/he decides to work for longer shift.

Therefore, my point is, the lower living cost requirement provides CHN the huge "pool", where as young ppl willing to take a shot to become a pro. Even if they can't become famous, it's still a decent job. However, that definitely does not apply for most western world.

 

[chibe_K]

I think most of Chinese athletes earn a big portion of their income from prize money and advertisement income. Their salary is too low. For examples, Lin Dan's salary is only about USD200.00 in year 2004 or 2005. But his contract of KFC advertisement brings him RMB2 million whereby RMB600,000 goes to Lin Dan.
Cost of living in Beijing or Shanghai is much lower comparing to the US but it is really not that low if comparing to other Asian cities beside Japan. One night staying in Shanghai Hilton hotel for a standard room cost us about USD250.00/night.

Are you saying if LD or other players like BCL, CH, ..etc don't get extra income from sponsorship, that is how much they will make each month ? An annual income of USD$200 is a ridiculous number for a top athletic in the world. You make more selling burgers at McDonalds.

 

[Eurasian =--(O)]

Does anyone actually know how much LD makes? I don't think so. Between FedEX, KFC, Yonex, and im sure many others. National training center sallary, modelling, magazine covers, prize money, China adding to prize money, maybe even a little coaching. Plus he's famous, he is probably on talk shows / newspaper interviews.

Who knows maybe next he will bring out a rap album.

 

[ctjcad]

I think most of Chinese athletes earn a big portion of their income from prize money and advertisement income. Their salary is too low. For examples, Lin Dan's salary is only about USD200.00 in year 2004 or 2005. But his contract of KFC advertisement brings him RMB2 million whereby RMB600,000 goes to Lin Dan.
Cost of living in Beijing or Shanghai is much lower comparing to the US but it is really not that low if comparing to other Asian cities beside Japan. One night staying in Shanghai Hilton hotel for a standard room cost us about USD250.00/night.

Yes, USD200 is low, but the living cost in CHN is also low. USD200 is an acceptable income for an ordinary person, consider s/he is only 20s. Even the college graduates are not guaranteed to make more than RMB1500 per month (USD175 around). Therefore, a CHN player can make an ok living, if s/he chooses badminton as a career. After s/he retire as a competitive player, s/he can apply for a badminton replated job (etc coaching) in school/city/providence even national level, depends on his/her ability.

However, such thing will not happen to most of the wester world, where living cost is much higher. For example, I was once told a coach for US national team's annual salary is around USD$20,000. For such amount, it's considered as a very low income, and hardly can earn an "acceptable" living. Even a HS student work in KFC might earn more than that, if s/he decides to work for longer shift.

hmm, i think Chu Liuxiang might've made a typo. Probably it should've been $20,000 instead of $200.00?!?!. Correct me if i'm wrong..?!?!..
Imagine, she mentioned staying in a hotel in Shanghai will cost $250.00(or is this a typo also); imagine if that's the case with LinDan's salary($200.00), he can't even stay in a hotel like that...hehe

BTW, if those CHN players aren't satisfied with whatever salary they can get there after they retire, they can always move & try working for other countries(ie. U.S., M'sia, S'pore, Korea-i'm sure they'll take them)..

 

[LazyBuddy]

Are you saying if LD or other players like BCL, CH, ..etc don't get extra income from sponsorship, that is how much they will make each month ? An annual income of USD$200 is a ridiculous number for a top athletic in the world. You make more selling burgers at McDonalds.

I believe he means USD$200 per month, which is slightly higher than the "normal" wage a young man can make in CHN.

 

[LazyBuddy]

Imagine, she mentioned staying in a hotel in Shanghai will cost $250.00(or is this a typo also); imagine if that's the case with LinDan's salary($200.00), he can't even stay in a hotel like that...hehe

I believe US$250 per night hotel is definitely one of the top ones (5 star) in CHN. Those ones are not meant to serve ordinary ppl. Most of the acceptable level hotels are much more afforable to everyone.

Plus, once on a tournament trip, I believe LD does not have to pay for room from his own pocket anyway.

 

[ctjcad]

A bit off topic...

I believe he means USD$200 per month, which is slightly higher than the "normal" wage a young man can make in CHN.

hmm, if abt $200/mo that'll only be around $2400/yr(and probably before taxes)....Still much less than your example of a student working in a McD... But then i'm pretty sure he gets a lot other endorsements/sponsorships...
If that's the case, LinDan and XXF, why don't you guys move to the U.S. or Canada and coach here. From coaching you'll get paid *cash* and you can earn much more than $200/mo. Living cost is higher, but with the money you're generating, you won't have to worry much.
And since you are so good, you can even play under the U.S. or Canadian flag.

 

[LazyBuddy]

hmm, if abt $200/mo that'll only be around $2400/yr(and probably before taxes)....Still much less than your example of a student working in a McD... But then i'm pretty sure he gets a lot other endorsements/sponsorships...
If that's the case, LinDan and XXF, why don't you guys move to the U.S. or Canada and coach here. From coaching you'll get paid *cash* and you can earn much more than $200/mo. Living cost is higher, but with the money you're generating, you won't have to worry much.
And since you are so good, you can even play under the U.S. or Canadian flag.

I am sure with their ability, LD & XXF can make a lot of $$$ everywhere. However, the ratio is the one we need to consider. The $$$ they made can make them live like king and queen in CHN, but might just ok if in US. Plus, never forget the language / culture / fame factors.

 

[cooler]

hmm, if abt $200/mo that'll only be around $2400/yr(and probably before taxes)....Still much less than your example of a student working in a McD... But then i'm pretty sure he gets a lot other endorsements/sponsorships...
If that's the case, LinDan and XXF, why don't you guys move to the U.S. or Canada and coach here. From coaching you'll get paid *cash* and you can earn much more than $200/mo. Living cost is higher, but with the money you're generating, you won't have to worry much.
And since you are so good, you can even play under the U.S. or Canadian flag.

Again, that is a INA concept as mentioned before, feast and famine approach
if ld come to US, what's after lin dan?
ardy been here in canada for almost 5 years, world ranking of canadian players remain static. I've also said before, great players don't neccessary make great coaches. I dont see LD as a good or a full time coach. China has way more opportunity than in INA, that's why lotta ex-INA players rather leave.

 

[ctjcad]

Off topic...

I am sure with their ability, LD & XXF can make a lot of $$$ everywhere. However, the ratio is the one we need to consider. The $$$ they made can make them live like king and queen in CHN, but might just ok if in US. Plus, never forget the language / culture / fame factors.

..sorry, didn't finish typing(got caught up in something else, and when i pressed Submit Reply, the 15 min. editing period was over)..
Personally they might "live like king or queen" with the money they make outside of CHN, but how to get them if they don't "live" outside CHN...
Anyways, i understand the ratio factor. But check this out. Imagine if they were to work for just say 2 yrs outside CHN, while at the same time be able to compete & play also:
- LD/XXF coach *at minimum* 8 hrs/day and 5 days/week.
- Place of stay gets paid.
- Get's paid ($20/hr *cash* only which means most likely he won't be charged tax). The amt can vary.
- $20/hr x 8 hrs = $160/hr. If 2 people it'll be $320. Again it may vary.
- He just needs to work abt 10 hrs/ to get the same amt he gets when playing for CHN
- $320/day x 5 days = $1600 for 2 people. Again it may vary.
- 1 month of work would be around $6400/mo. for 2 people. Imagine 1 yr. how much they'll get. Remember, that's cash only. And of course, that doesn't incl. any extra working hrs. Or other endorsements.

Now re language/culture and fame, i understand those as well. The only major thing which they'll get affected and come to my mind is : who will be their sparring partners when they move out of CHN. Which reminds me of one Tony Gunawan who is playing overseas in Denmark...
But since LD and XXF are already winners and garnered so many titles, with the exception of the Olympics..who knows..

So, LD and XXF should think abt packing their bags and moving here to U.S. or Canada..

 

[ctjcad]

Again, that is a INA concept as mentioned before, feast and famine approach
if ld come to US, what's after lin dan?
ardy been here in canada for almost 5 years, world ranking of canadian players remain static. I've also said before, great players don't neccessary make great coaches. I dont see LD as a good or a full time coach. China has way more opportunity than in INA, that's why lotta ex-INA players rather leave.

hmm, cooler, i understand your point of it's different being a player and coach and how successful he/she can be...but we're focusing/comparing on how much (CHN) players *can make* with their current salary...or when they retire...of course, there could be other reason(s) as well for the move or if they want they can move back to CHN again when they want to pursue a "real" coaching gig...

Anyways, i think i'll end it here. We've gone a bit too off topic for this thread. There're another set of posts/threads on this topic. Sorry guys-

BTW, don't tell that to KDM (and RKM) though..

 

[jamesd20]

Apart from the Mixed event China players only lost three matches against rival countries in this WC.

Yanjiao Jiang losing to Perta overzier in WS

Chen Jin Losing to Lee Hyun Il in MS

Guo/Xie lost to Tazari/Lin in MD

Bao ad Chen only lost to Lin, Zhang Ning only lost to XXF, and WD only lost to each other too.

XD really let the side down, all four lost to other countries.

 

[LazyBuddy]

..sorry, didn't finish typing(got caught up in something else, and when i pressed Submit Reply, the 15 min. editing period was over)..
Personally they might "live like king or queen" with the money they make outside of CHN, but how to get them if they don't "live" outside CHN...
Anyways, i understand the ratio factor. But check this out. Imagine if they were to work for just say 2 yrs outside CHN, while at the same time be able to compete & play also:
- LD/XXF coach *at minimum* 8 hrs/day and 5 days/week.
- Place of stay gets paid.
- Get's paid ($20/hr *cash* only which means most likely he won't be charged tax). The amt can vary.
- $20/hr x 8 hrs = $160/hr. If 2 people it'll be $320. Again it may vary.
- He just needs to work abt 10 hrs/ to get the same amt he gets when playing for CHN
- $320/day x 5 days = $1600 for 2 people. Again it may vary.
- 1 month of work would be around $6400/mo. for 2 people. Imagine 1 yr. how much they'll get. Remember, that's cash only. And of course, that doesn't incl. any extra working hrs. Or other endorsements.

This calculation only shows the "positive" side. You need to show how much they need to SPEND to make a living if in US, let's put some major factors:

1. Food: Consider a decent meal for 2 person should be at least US$10 per meal.

2. House: If they want to coaching, they have to live in metro area, which means the renting is high. Say, decent house for $800 per month.

3. Car: Car itself at least cost US$15,000 plus all the gas, maintanance, insurance, repair, etc.

4. Medical insurance: They better get a good one, otherwise the crazy medical bills will whip them out.

etc... That's why I always metion "ratio" instead of point blank "salary".

Never to metion, establish a program is never easy. Either you start from ground zero by yourself, which means tons of communication and great amount of effort and investment (i.e. facility renting, etc). Or, you work for other firms, which takes a great cut down from ur $$$.

Therefore, why suffer through all these, while giving up the guaranteed "king / queen" status?

 

[pjswift]

lack of confidence?

Top China players usually skip Asian Games, so you suggested that China's dominanation will end when they not play

And the reason for skipping? Each country is allowed only two entries per event. This means LD can only have one escort. He always need a minimum of two. How is he to win? LCW is worth 3 CHN MS. Let's see whether CHN has the guts to participate, otherwise the status of CHN for CHickeN remains.