question about the front foot and singles serve

[ralphz]

If a person serves in singles, a high serve, they stand normally, racket foot back, but they step forward with their non-racket foot at the start of their serve, before they swing their racket forwards .

Is that a foul?

I'd have thought it depends on when their serve is considered to have started?

Is their serve considered to have started only when their racket swings forwards? In which case I'd have though tit's ok.

(And as a side note, is the back foot allowed to slide forwards? I think it is, but not come off the floor.. as both feet have to be in contact with the floor during the serve)

Thanks

 

[visor]

No sliding allowed.

11.1.2 The server and receiver shall stand within diagonally opposite service courts without touching the boundary lines of these service courts; some part of both feet of the server and receiver must remain in contact with the surface of the court in a stationary position until the service is delivered.

11.4 The service is delivered when, once started (Law 11.2), the shuttle is hit by the server's racket or the shuttle lands on the floor.


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[ralphz]

No sliding allowed.

11.1.2 The server and receiver shall stand within diagonally opposite service courts without touching the boundary lines of these service courts; some part of both feet of the server and receiver must remain in contact with the surface of the court in a stationary position until the service is delivered.

11.4 The service is delivered when, once started (Law 11.2), the shuttle is hit by the server's racket or the shuttle lands on the floor.


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okay that addresses the question re the back foot. sliding. {edit-actually I think it suggests sliding is allowed if it occurs after the shuttle is hit}

leaves the question about the front foot! If the server steps forward before swinging the racket, then is the stepping forward considered as part of the serve, or does the serve only start once the racket swings forward?

 

[SnowWhite]

okay that addresses the question re the back foot. sliding.

leaves the question about the front foot! If the server steps forward before swinging the racket, then is the stepping forward considered as part of the serve, or does the serve only start once the racket swings forward?

The step is not a foul. It's also not necessary for a good high serve.

 

[ralphz]

The step is not a foul<snip>.

How do you know that a front foot stepping wouldn't be considered to be part of the serve(and thus a foul)?

Also, regarding the back foot sliding, looking at the rules that were quoted in the thread, I think it wouldn't be a foul, if it happens after the shuttle is struck, since at that time, the serve is considered "delivered".

 

[SnowWhite]

How do you know that a front foot stepping wouldn't be considered to be part of the serve(and thus a foul)?

Also, regarding the back foot sliding, looking at the rules that were quoted in the thread, I think it wouldn't be a foul, if it happens after the shuttle is struck, since at that time, the serve is considered "delivered".

"9.2 Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the server’s racket head shall be the start of the service."

"9.3 Once started (Law 9.2), the service is delivered when the shuttle is hit by the server’s racket or, in attempting to serve, the server misses the shuttle."

 

[ralphz]

"9.2 Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the server’s racket head shall be the start of the service."

"9.3 Once started (Law 9.2), the service is delivered when the shuttle is hit by the server’s racket or, in attempting to serve, the server misses the shuttle."

Well, let's suppose that were the racket arm stationary, then stepping forward with the front foot would move the racket forwards.

The player might pull the racket arm back while stepping forward and by the time their racket starts coming forwards, their front foot has a stationary contact point on the ground.

So do you still think that stepping the front foot forward would count as starting the serve?

 

[SnowWhite]

Well, let's suppose that were the racket arm stationary, then stepping forward with the front foot would move the racket forwards.

The player might pull the racket arm back while stepping forward and by the time their racket starts coming forwards, their front foot has a stationary contact point on the ground.

So do you still think that stepping the front foot forward would count as starting the serve?

I wouldn't still think that stepping the front foot forward would count as starting the serve because I never thought that in the first place. It doesn't.

No service judge will call it a fault because it isn't. With that logic you can argue that when a player picks up the shuttle from the rear court and walks to the T to serve, their racket head is moving forward and therefore it counts as starting the serve. The only difference between this, and your example is an arbitrary concept of when you think the serve should count as being started.

 

[ralphz]

I wouldn't still think that stepping the front foot forward would count as starting the serve because I never thought that in the first place. It doesn't.

No service judge will call it a fault because it isn't. With that logic you can argue that when a player picks up the shuttle from the rear court and walks to the T to serve, their racket head is moving forward and therefore it counts as starting the serve. The only difference between this, and your example is an arbitrary concept of when you think the serve should count as being started.

okay front foot aside.

What is your view then re the back foot sliding?

would you think that if it slides before contacting the shuttle it's a foul, but if it slides after contacting the shuttle then it's ok?

 

[SnowWhite]

okay front foot aside.

What is your view then re the back foot sliding?

would you think that if it slides before contacting the shuttle it's a foul, but if it slides after contacting the shuttle then it's ok?

My view doesnt matter. This is what the rules say.

11.1.2 The server and receiver shall stand within diagonally opposite service courts without touching the boundary lines of these service courts; some part of both feet of the server and receiver must remain in contact with the surface of the court in a stationary position until the service is delivered.

11.4 The service is delivered when, once started (Law 11.2), the shuttle is hit by the server's racket or the shuttle lands on the floor.

Since this was already posted, let me elaborate some more , so its extra clear:

Since the feet need to be stationary until the serve is delivered, any sliding before the shuttle is hit is a foul. Anything happening after the shuttle is hit is of no concern regarding the serve.

 

[ralphz]

My view doesnt matter. This is what the rules say.

11.1.2 The server and receiver shall stand within diagonally opposite service courts without touching the boundary lines of these service courts; some part of both feet of the server and receiver must remain in contact with the surface of the court in a stationary position until the service is delivered.

11.4 The service is delivered when, once started (Law 11.2), the shuttle is hit by the server's racket or the shuttle lands on the floor.

Since this was already posted, let me elaborate some more , so its extra clear:

Since the feet need to be stationary until the serve is delivered, any sliding before the shuttle is hit is a foul. Anything happening after the shuttle is hit is of no concern regarding the serve.

okay, so if the back foot slides before the racket moves forward or after contact then it wouldn't be a foul.. but if it happens after the racket has moved forward and before contact, then it's a foul..

THanks

 

[Simeon]

Well, let's suppose that were the racket arm stationary, then stepping forward with the front foot would move the racket forwards.

The player might pull the racket arm back while stepping forward and by the time their racket starts coming forwards, their front foot has a stationary contact point on the ground.

So do you still think that stepping the front foot forward would count as starting the serve?

 

[Simeon]

Very good question. I am surprised that nobody who had teaching on this question didn't come and tell what the teacher said. Among the members we should have many referees

 

[Loh]

11.1.2 The server and receiver shall stand within diagonally opposite service courts without touching the boundary lines of these service courts; some part of both feet of the server and receiver must remain in contact with the surface of the court in a stationary position until the service is delivered.

I think the intent is not to allow the receiver to move when the service is delivered. So whether it is the front or back foot moves, it will be considered a fault.

 

[Simeon]

"9.2 Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the server’s racket head shall be the start of the service."

"9.3 Once started (Law 9.2), the service is delivered when the shuttle is hit by the server’s racket or, in attempting to serve, the server misses the shuttle."

It seems that players have made an unwritten rule: Once you have teken your stance you can't step anymore before the shuttle is hit. No receiver nor server. But the written rules let you make a stepping serve

 

[Loh]

Provided some part of both feet remain in contact with the floor in a stationary position.
I take that to mean you step to serve but you cannot move anymore until your serve is finished.

 

[Simeon]

Provided some part of both feet remain in contact with the floor in a stationary position.
I take that to mean you step to serve but you cannot move anymore until your serve is finished.

Maybe you missed the point?
You start your serve by lifting your front foot up but keeping your racket back. Only when your front foot lands you start your swing forward. Written rules don't clearly prohibit that.

 

[superlentivirus]

Maybe you missed the point?
You start your serve by lifting your front foot up but keeping your racket back. Only when your front foot lands you start your swing forward. Written rules don't clearly prohibit that.

9.1.2. on completion of the backward movement of the server’s racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2) shall be considered to be an undue delay;

no delay between moving backward and forward

IMO. if the server steps forward-pause-start serving, and both of the server's feet are still in service court --> it's not a fault

if the server doesn't take a pause after stepping forward, it's a fault. 'cause one of the server's feet is moving and is not in a stationary position while serving

 

[Simeon]

9.1.2. on completion of the backward movement of the server’s racket head, any delay in the start of the service (Law 9.2) shall be considered to be an undue delay;

no delay between moving backward and forward

IMO. if the server steps forward-pause-start serving, and both of the server's feet are still in service court --> it's not a fault

if the server doesn't take a pause after stepping forward, it's a fault. 'cause one of the server's feet is moving and is not in a stationary position while serving

Interesting point of views

Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the server’s racket head shall be the start of the service

So, I still see possible to do stepping serve if you move your racket backwards when your front foot is in the air, and without delay start forward swing when your front foot lands

 

[ralphz]

To superlenti, Well, we agree no to pause the racket motion in the middle of the swing!

if the server doesn't take a pause after stepping forward, it's a fault. 'cause one of the server's feet is moving and is not in a stationary position while serving

If the racket is swinging back when they step forward then the serve has technically not started yet.

If stepping forward then forward swing of the racket starts after the foot lands.
.
9.2 Once the players are ready for the service, the first forward movement of the server’s racket head shall be the start of the service.

And if the back foot slides in its contact with the floor, the slide has to be after contact with the shuttle.

--
Note instead of 9.2, I had 11.2 as per 1992, though it amounts to the same thing just worded differently and with a different rule number.

11.2(as per 1992) Once the players have taken their positions, the first forward movement of the server's racket is the start of the service. (Note, 1992 wording and rule number is only included because I had used that one before..)