I think, first, you need to make up your mind on what you want to say -- does rally21 take less time? is rally21 duration more consistent?
I thought he said more things than that, but more from a scorekeeping official's point of view and based on club matches he officiated.
Hey! That is great. There is no reason to change over then, if time durations are the same. These figures seem odd to me, though. They do not fit in with my experience.
Ahh. So only your views count. I really must read "1984" again, because I can now begin to see what the arguments will be when the IBF confirms the trial as successful in May.
I make no such claim. All views are welcome, the more transparent and the more "experience of the new system" the more credible. I am sure you will agree with me that it does not make a case of against the new system look good if the new system is being torn to pieces before evaluating it. The most credible decision will come when all the IBF votes decide after this year's Thomas Cup. Until then let us play more games of the new system and build up an informed opinion by then. Is this that hard to do?
Just for the record.. I would be more than willing to try any proposed scoring format, if I beleive there is a need, and that 15x3 isn't good enough or have big flaws that need to be fixed.. I happen to think 15x3 is OK.. So why mess with something that is OK got most people... We all know there are great challenges making badminton more known in many regions, popular as a spectator sport, etc.. We have lots of problems that NEED fixing.. Why waste precious time fiddling with the things that do work and isn't a problem for the sport.. If You, IBF or anyone can prove 15x3 IS a PROBLEM, then I'll be willing to try alternatives (I have already been playing 5x7 etc when that was official, and have user PAR21 in racketlon (the PAR21 scoring has been used for years in badminton in past of racketlon tournaments , check out http://www.racketlon.com/ ). I am just getting sick and tired of this mantra that changing the scoring system will "fix" every problem with, marketing, TV, popularity, yadda yadda.. I think the basis for the change is invalid, therefore I think its a "diversion" from real actions that could help to solve real problems... This hurts badminton more than it helps promote it... It's not like IBF encourages people to try it out and then vote for the system.. They actually force it onto major IBF events for the worl top players without a decent trial period or a majority of the badminton community behind it.. Personally I think this stinks.. And Whats next.. OF 21x3 isn't the holy grail..That fixes averything...Will they start trying a new scoring format every year, until badminton gets "fixed".. Sorry, But If IBF can't come up with a good valid problem description for 15x3 I will not just sit silent when stupidity is formalized... /Twobeer
Yes, I agree! Before thinking about which scoring system is "better", the question is "Why should we change???" I have heard no valid answer to this.
I really sympathize with twobeer. He must be really frustrated. I felt the same. Imagine having your favourite game changed for no damn good reason. But there are always people who will do this. Sometime it takes more courage to do nothing than to try something just to prove to people that you are doing your job.
You can actually make your case against the new scoring system stronger if you have some experience of what the new system is all about, If not it could be viewed as uninformed and a lot of hot air. If you honestly want to kill the system, do something about it by playing a reasonable number of games, get a consensus among your fellow players and umpires, and then fire your big gun. But now all I hear are pot shots that will never find their way to your country's badminton federation. You will be surprised that some small European countries like Holland and Belgium have as many votes as Indonesia or China. Even Canada and the US have the max. no. of votes. Also, what would you think if the new system was the idea of a major badminton country (not Malaysia)?
What you say and feel so strongly may be perfectly valid for you and even for me as a player. But the IBF and all other affiliated federations are slowly learning that money doesn't grow on trees. They need to generate more funds. With enough funds you have more options. With more options you are on your way up instead of staying put or be even threatened by the Olympic Committee to have badminton dropped from the games and have funds cut off. If you run a deficit do you think banks will provide overdraft fundings to badminton associations? The new system obviously has TV in mind, more so than the old system which has a lot of time wasting that could be better put to money-generating TV use. Alas, sometimes the view from one end is so different from the other end-the governing body and the court player. I have no trouble stepping into the shoes of both ends.
I HAVE played a LOT of rally21. Not 60 games, but at least 21 (isn't that enough? ) And I DO NOT like it. It messes with hard-built strategies and tactics that we have developed over the years. It makes the game less strenous, and easier for the lazier, both the mental and the physical kind. Half the singles games I win with rally21, I know I would have lost if it had gone on to a real game. You can win games now at 5-4. It feels like cheating. I don't like it. What exactly do you see in rally21, anyway? You have never answered that question, even though people have asked it of you innumerable times, so I don't really expect an answer other than "give it a try, it is easy to get used to." No, I want you to look at some of the comments here, see how heartfelt they are, and speak to them on the same level. rally21 will change the way badminton is played, and for the worse. Is that really what you want?
Well, the answer is simple... If IBF can show me a TV-station that requires IBF to change to Rally 21x3 scoring i order to give badminton more air-time... I will agree it's worth a shot.. If they say Yes, we promise in writing, to increase the air-time of badminton next year provided IBF change to rally 21 scoring.. Could IBF show any station formulating this requirement and promising more air-time in return??? I don't think so!! Could they even find one sponsor, that states they will put money into badminton if 3x21 is used but not if we stick to 3x15.. I think not... I doubt any TV-station has guaranteed it will air badminton more if games are shorter and rally scoring is used... If IBF have no commitment from broadcasters... Maybe IBF is just chasing rainbows?... Did the 5x7 produce significant more air-time?? What research has led them to beleive a 3x21 rally scoring would produce more air-time??? I do however think TV-stations may tell IBF they need advertisment spots to get more air-time to badminton.. But I do not think they give a "rats ass" about if its 15x3, 21x3 5x7 or whatever as long as they get the ad-dollars in... Its simple market economy.. More viewers = more ads = more expensive ads = more money = more air-time... IT IS NOT ABOUT SCORING SYSTEM USED... There must be some flawed logic thinking that shorter games wth less breaks would magically produce more air-time.. (Unless this is explicitly required by TV-stations and put into writing in contract between IBF and the TV-stations). Games are not that long today, and breaks etc could easilly be put in for short ad-spots.. in the 3x15 system (maybe less allowed toweling etc, but timed scheduled shorter breaks for toweling, drinking, with ad-sport..) (could have ad spots at 8 in all 3 sets for example).. Then try to step into the shoes of the TV-station manager.. Is he really going to commit to show 3x21 badminton much more than he did commit to 3x15 badminton...My answer to this is no.. These numbers are not what interests him..He couldn't care less if rules where changed to wear silly hats, plastic shuttles, or if serving-rules are changed or whatever IBF makes to the game.. What he cares about are number of viewers and number of advertisers.. Getting more viewers and sponsors should be the priority.. changing scoring is NOT the solution...
Well, at least your opinions can be taken more seriously than those who have not tried the new system. Frankly I find that basically you still play the same strokes and generally the same tactics in the new system. I am now more focussed and more serious. Best of all I don't give away silly serving mistakes that I used to do. Yes, my doubles serving has improved. Against weaker opponents the game finishes in double quick time. Against evenly matched opponents it is comparable to the old system.
Have you really tried it ??? Beating a poor player requires me to play 42 rallies with this system... With 3x15 I only need 30 (or 31 if i loose the coin-toss).. So its 12 more points in the rally system.. almost an extra game!!! 3x21 streches out uneven matchup and shortens tight games.. extremely silly imop.
You are right. But the weaker opponents I played against were not beginners. Also they were too cavaliar with their serves : obviously they were not too mathematically inclined!
During the December 2005 official opening of the new IBF office in KL, Poul Erik Hoyer-Larsen, Denmark's 1996 Olympic singles gold medallist, was quoted as saying that he was all for the change to the new system. Reasons given by Hoyer-Larsen were that the player now has to be quicker to react to each point and the level of concentration is very high. He also says it will bring the game to a higher level. However, he would have preferred the new system to be best of 5x21 instead of 3x21. Now, maybe some of you know something that Larsen doesn't know.
TV coverage has nothing to do with rally scoring or serve scoring. Fund have nothing to do with rally scoring or serve scoring. Badminton is nowhere near being dropped from the Olympics.
This is purely psychological, I think you should try and be focussed and serious whatever the scoring. Same thing for your serves. In fact, in serve scoring, if your service is bad, you will never score!! So there I think you either never tried rally scoring (and never worked your maths at school) or you were so biased when trying that your impressions were opposite to the truth. It is a clear mathematical fact that very uneven matches last longer with rally scoring whereas very close matches are much shorter. I had posted the mathematical prooth in a thread somewhere, if you're interested you can look for it. (I can't bother finding it again)
In case you're interested, here are official IBF stats on last WC. (in an attempt to evaluate rally scoring)
To avoid any possible errors my last post might create, these were the words that were reported to be from Poul Erik Hoyer-Larsen during the official opening of the new IBF office in KL in December 2005 : "I support this change. One has to react at each point and the level of concentration is very high. It certainly brings the game to a higher level". My experience with the new system certainly supports this. My serve and focus are now better. You think it is all in my head? No, definitely not. Or maybe Hoyer-Larsen was talking nonsense?
