MD final conspiracy theories...

Discussion in 'World Championships 2005' started by the_way, Aug 23, 2005.

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  1. MikeJ

    MikeJ Regular Member

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    Thank you for giving us an insight on how you find answers to your questions and proofs to wild conspiracies. You can't even find my post addressed to you in this 7 page (as of now) thread. You still need me to repost it. :D

    If you can't find a simple post in this thread, how can you find the right answers to your own questions? ;)

    So much for your conspiracy theory. Better luck next time. :D :D
     
  2. the_way

    the_way Regular Member

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    well, seems like u do not want to tell what is ur question eventhough i asked politely....well let it be.....i only want discussion and make friends with badminton fans.I think i do want to entertain post that is uncivilised.

    Btw....according to the moderators....

    You should read the rules below before posting:
    • <LI class=guideline_item>Be civil - respect others and respect yourself. rudeness, SPAMs, flamings, attacks, trolling are strictly not allowed. <LI class=guideline_item>No repeated questions - Before you ask a question please check to see if someone else has asked it before, scan through this thread first or ask our search engine. <LI class=guideline_item>Off topic - attempts to bring a thread wildy off-topic is not allowed.
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    Moderators may delete your post if it violates the above.


    Hope that everyone can appreciate this badmintoncentral forum and do not insult any of the members opinion. :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: .
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Come on, buddy...

    We already answered ur questions, as, "the record/ranking can't guarantee a high performance / championship every single day". Therefore, "the better / more favorable players still could lose, or being out performed by lower ranking opponents in someday." It's YOU simply REFUSE to take the answers. :cool:

    I am pretty sure the ANSWER u r looking for, is someone to support ur own ideas, and say, "YEAH, THEY UNDER PERFORMED ON PURPOSE"... :(
     
  4. MikeJ

    MikeJ Regular Member

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    Now you're just contradicting yourself. You asked me to repost my questions yet you post the message above saying "no repeated questions - .....scan through the thread..."

    Have a wonderful day. :D and again, better luck next time. :D
     
  5. wwcbro

    wwcbro Regular Member

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    can anyone upload videos of "The Conspiracy Theory"? :rolleyes:
     
  6. MsiaBoleh

    MsiaBoleh Regular Member

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    Hei everybody. I just got back to Malaysia after staying about 1 week in Anaheim. It was indeed a great competition there. I really admire Taufik Hidayat and I was a bit upset about how the final of MD was played. I am attracted to this thread and I believe what the_way said is logical. I was quite lucky to have the chance to chat awhile with Koo Kien Kiat and he said that Chandra and Sigit were really on their own class when they played against Msian pair.He also said that Chandra and Sigit smashed him quite frequently because they knew he made alot of mistake on that day. However, he was quite surprised with the Indonesian pair performance on that final day. Tony was hardly seen on making any mistakes and all the shuttle had been sent to him. He said that Sigit did not work well with Chandra on that day and also their court coverage were not so good and therefore Tony had the chance to send the shuttle the empty area.

    Apart from that, i also realised that when Chandra and Sigit want to get point in that game, they make it so confidenly and easily. Meanwhile, when they want to give away the point, they made the USA collect it in a style either by letting Howard smash or letting Tony Killed the shuttle in front of net.

    So, when i got back, some of my friends in my badmitnon training session also discussed with me about this problem and indeed most of them already know Tony and Howard will win this final and also in 3 sets. Well, the 3 sets were to provide a thrilling final to the crowd and also eventually to the USA nations when it is shown in tv. Hence, the sports can get much more popularity.

    Thus, i believe the_way has his own point there and i think some participants in this forums should control the way they express their feeling because i find that it is too barbaric and is attacking personally to the_way from japan.

    Come on guyz, we should discuss this problem like a man, not by insulting and hitting each other. After all....Chong Wei and Malaysia Boleh:D :D :D :D :D :D
     
  7. chibe_K

    chibe_K Regular Member

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    Detective work...

    Conspiracy theories are not new, John F. Kennedy assassination, Taiwan election, Maryln Monroe's death, 9/11 attack, ..etc. However, it needs facts, bits of evidence, and able to relate them and explain the theories.

    For those who believe in this theory, please come up with facts and evidence. I do not believe in this theory because there isn't any facts or evidence that convince me that the matches were fixed.
     
  8. wilfredlgf

    wilfredlgf Regular Member

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    Of course, when your fave team/player doesn't win something you hope he/she/they should, it becomes a conspiracy. What better time to do than the Finals of the highest and most prestigious tournament in world badminton eh, especially when it would make a perfect swansong?
     
  9. chibe_K

    chibe_K Regular Member

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    Interesting points...


    I do not support the conspiracy theory but I do find you made some interesting points here.
     
  10. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    Thing is, we probably won't know anything. *IF* and only *IF* it is "fixed", only the player(s) know about it. Probably not even the coaches knew about it..Actually the news about this already made news in some Indonesian newspaper back in Indonesia.. :rolleyes:

     
    #130 ctjcad, Aug 24, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2005
  11. w3wmfhe

    w3wmfhe Regular Member

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    don't know how many times world champ or olympic can a player represent..and will also be able 2 last to the final....it is dream for every player to win a title like olympic and worldchamp....player work their bud off to make their dream become truth...as a professional player
    badminton life is very short most of the player..do u think candra and sigit will give up the title this time..coz they will come back next year and win it again..as IBF promised them to hv the title next year world champ....this might be their last chance to win worldchamp.
     
    #131 w3wmfhe, Aug 24, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2005
  12. Adel

    Adel Regular Member

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    I posted this on another thread and hope it is not against my better judgment to move it here:

    If my memory serves me right, Alexis de Tocqueville once said, "People will believe a simple lie rather than a complicated truth." I wish he was here to participate in the discussion! :)

    In reality, I was somewhat shocked and disappointed by Candra and Sigit's loss, largely because I was hoping a win could get Candra up again (he had a very sorry 2004 with the Thomas Cup loss and non-participation in the Olympics). But I don't know if I buy the theory of a conspiracy to put the US men's doubles team on top.

    People are likely to espouse such ideas when upsets happen but I think one point we might be missing is, if there is bribery involved in this case, who's making the payouts? The US Badminton Federation? IBF? Bookmakers?

    Substantial sums must be involved for bribery to take place and I'm not sure if the US bad. fed. or IBF have enough funding for this. As for bookmakers, I can't fathom the idea of someone placing enough money on a badminton match to want to influence the outcome of one! (Feel free to prove me wrong if you do know of any though - maybe I could try my hand one of these days. :D )

    Yes, we all know what a US victory could mean: better publicity, greater awareness of and involvement in the sport, more sponsors, more cash and more visibility... but these would be events that happen (hopefully) in the long run and not in the immediate aftermath. I would think that IF AND ONLY IF someone was convinced to throw a game with the promise of monetary incentive, he/she would want the money right away...?

    And no, I'm not out to damage any player's integrity.
     
    #132 Adel, Aug 24, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2005
  13. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    On these points below, i was able to contaq a few of my relatives back in Indo. I asked them their opinion about if there was "fixing" involved for the MD, and they all said they don't know. However, when they watched the MD Final, they felt Candra & Sigit were playing more on the defensive basically throughout the game. Instead of attacking(which they can do anytime, which they showed in the 2nd game), during the majority of the game they were giving "bait", by lifting the shuttles for Tony and Howard to smash back at them. Seemed like they were a bit tired as well. They also said that overall, the other events on the Finals day were a bit "lackluster" as there weren't many top player playing or the top players were already out.

     
  14. Jumpalot

    Jumpalot Regular Member

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    8man,

    You missed the point. First, I was trying to establish that future results is pointless in this discussion ( thread ) since the accusation is IBF fixed the 05 WC. Once again, tournaments that will be played in the future is not an indicator or "proof" in any shape or form.

    Tony/ Howard ranked #13 in the world going into 05 WC and yes they upset quite a few teams in front of a home audience. It does not mean they have to start winning other tornaments just to proof they truely won 05 WC.

    Now, if this thread is about Tony / Howard and if they are for real and if they are a real threat to win tournaments then your points are valid. Otherwise, lets stick to the topic which is IBF fixed the 05 WC.
     
  15. ctjcad

    ctjcad Regular Member

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    I had posted a similar post to this earlier in another different thread. Yes, only the player(s) themselves know. I'm sure we all know what Candra&Sigit are capable of. And we all know what Tony&Howard are capable of.

     
  16. viver

    viver Regular Member

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    First, I am not thinking of a conspiracy of any kind.

    Downloaded and watched only the first game, no time to watch the other two yet. My first impression was that Chandra and Sigit did not play their level. Bach is good but not in the level of other 3 - in the first 3 strokes there is a noticeable difference.

    But credit have to be given to Tony. He returned everything and also often setup excellently for his partner to finish. What's most amazing is that Tony still able to play such high level games (I guess there are not that many level playing partners as in Indonesia) after been away for a while. In my opinion, his accomplishments are even more fantastic than Taufik's. Maybe it was PSBI's mistake to let him go...?

    Read in this thread about Chandra/Sigit being able to return Fu HaiFeng's smashes which are stronger but not Tony's. This could be explained about the quality of the hit - Tony's smashes may not be as powerful as Fu's but if you couldn't read his placement then it will be harder to return. Apparently Bach smashes are more powerful than Tony's but most were returned too.

    Another point was why keep attacking Tony instead of Bach. I don't know, but I assume if Tony is down then the US team is out. Instead attacking Bach might bring him playing above his own level (with crowd support anything is possible), so would be better to focus the firepower on Tony. Chandra, Sigit and Tony are of same level, so in theory it should not be a problem for the 2 of them ganging up on Tony alone and break the US team completly. Just my guess and of course only the players/coaches know if this was their game plan.

    I consider Tony Gunawan one of the best current doubles player. But from his accomplishments and amazing play should put him among the all time best doubles players.
     
  17. Darth Andrianus

    Darth Andrianus Regular Member

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    Wait...sorry to digress a little bit, are you sure Taufik is ethnic chinese? that sounds unlikely to me. How do you know this? When I watched WC on GDSports, they called Mia, Tony, Candra by their chinese names, so I know they are ethnic chinese, but they did not do the same for Taufik, so I thought he is pribumi. Are you sure?
     
  18. Adel

    Adel Regular Member

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    Hi Viver,

    (Great to hear from you again!)

    Well, Halim Haryanto who won the WC 2001 with Tony Gunawan is currently in USA acting as their coach. I expect he helps to maintain Tony's level of play - although what you said about Gunawan's performance after being away for some time is more than valid - as well as improve Howard Bach's standard.

     
  19. cappy75

    cappy75 Regular Member

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    It could be chinese translation of their names. I was watching bits of HK-televised series at the All England '05 on DVD, they have chinese names for Japanese, Indonesian and Danish players:D.

     
  20. Jumpalot

    Jumpalot Regular Member

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    CTJCAD,

    I agree that there is a possiblity that anything could happen. After all, everyone is human and human are known to make mistakes. And yes, anyone can question the results of a tournament. And a big "yes" some people may have "guessed" right that USA will win in 3 games, but it is no "proof" that 05 WC is fixed. And lets keep in mind that a FIX in this case would involve more than just the INDOS. It would involve almost everyone that the USA Team beat to get to the finals.


    The_Way,

    What I am looking for is proof and evidence. So far I have seen "ZERO evidence" and "NO Proof" What we have here is a bunch of questions that has been answered and explained countless times in this thread. If you are looking for answers, read the thread carefully as I am sure most of us are pretty tired of repeating the samething over and over. However, if needed I am sure I or someone will give you a line by line response. But somehow I believe you dont want to know the answers to your questions unlike someone like me who is extremely eager to see what evidence and proof you have to support that IBF actually managed to pull off this incredibly amazing task of fixing a 6* tournament the includes 4+ major super powers in badminton and thats watched by over probably 5 million people and witnessed by thousands and thousands of fans / players/ coaches / reporters live over the period of 7 days.
     
    #140 Jumpalot, Aug 24, 2005
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2005
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