Gideon Marcus Fernaldi / Kevin Sanjaya Sukamuljo

rhoder said:
Yep I think we have said that in the past. But I think most people were unwilling to pin the blame (or at least a disproportionate amount) at Gideon, arguing in political correctness that both shared the blame. Imo Kevin can only do so much in the doubles court, one could see his effort in trying to take as many shuttles as possible before they reached Marcus, and implicitly it reflected his somewhat lack of trust in Marcus. This time if their disparity in their performance was big enough, maybe more could realise this harsh truth
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Like not blaming Liu Cheng for Liu/Zhang's loss in critical times? It's hard not to do so though haha

Last year both Kevin and Marcus shared the same blame (though personally I blamed more on Marcus, if I could be honest ahem). This time, if it weren't for G3 I probably would have blamed Kevin too for not trying hard enough. I don't know what more weakness they need to work on honestly. Kevin shared the workload from the back court when Marcus was, in my chagrin, back to his habit of attacking with less variation like he did before IO or JO.

And it obviously has nothing to do with Kevin's antics or behavior on court for that matter:cool::D
 
ma.ria said:
I should agree with this. Maybe some cant accept it (that's why I stated it as controversy), but for me as long as the service judge doesnt call it, I'll accept it as a fair service
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agree that marcus serve neck high and choi tactic is not dirty?
wow
 
The draw hasnt been kind to them as well. Last year they drew CHN player in R1. in AG, they drew JPN player in R1 and this time they drew KOR player in R1.
 
tepokbulu said:
agree that marcus serve neck high and choi tactic is not dirty?
wow
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Is 'dirty' another word for 'fair'?
If it is, then I will say yes.
You can disagree, but I measure it solely based on the call from the judge/umpire. What else I can rely on? Unless it's regulated, then my opinion on whether it's fair or not is baseless
 
Yoji said:
The draw hasnt been kind to them as well. Last year they drew CHN player in R1. in AG, they drew JPN player in R1 and this time they drew KOR player in R1.
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It doesn't stop them winning tour titles though.

Maybe they just keep choking in the world championship...
 
ericksakti said:
Yes, but one can also say for LiLiu that "its their only time" when winning WC as well. So lets not judge a player only from winning WC, just like we dont judge Taufik Hidayat for not winning AE, even though he has participated many many times.
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No one’s judging a player’s career only based on the ability (or lack thereof) to win a single tournament. At the end of someone’s career, their achievements will be judged in totality for sure, but these majors represent a significant part of their careers. An inability to win something as major as WC would be a point of regret, even if we do not admit it as fans.

Anyway, we’re getting ahead of ourselves. It’s perfectly possible they manage to sneak OG out next year, then all this talk is for naught. But time is running out for them as a pair, whether we like it or not
 
rhoder said:
No one’s judging a player’s career only based on the ability (or lack thereof) to win a single tournament. At the end of someone’s career, their achievements will be judged in totality for sure, but these majors represent a significant part of their careers. An inability to win something as major as WC would be a point of regret, even if we do not admit it as fans.

Anyway, we’re getting ahead of ourselves. It’s perfectly possible they manage to sneak OG out next year, then all this talk is for naught. But time is running out for them as a pair, whether we like it or not
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I agree with this, for Marcus he is on his last leg of the careers, whereas for Kevin still a big world full of possibility of chance for him.
 
ma.ria said:
Is 'dirty' another word for 'fair'?
If it is, then I will say yes.
You can disagree, but I measure it solely based on the call from the judge/umpire. What else I can rely on? Unless it's regulated, then my opinion on whether it's fair or not is baseless
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dirty = unfair = cheating
so by delaying the serve, choi is not cheating? because service judge or umpire says nothing about it?
 
:(:(:(:(:(

Am I right with the points (4800) they are getting from this WC?
On a brighter side, minions has completed their "Round Exit" collection today for this year :R1, R2, QF, SF and Finalist. :D Let's hope they will not have anymore exits and win all the tournaments this year. Sweep them all up minions!! :):):)

Updated 22/08/2019 :

*(1) Malaysia Masters Super 500 -> Champion
*(2) Indonesia Masters Super 500 -> Champion
*(3) All England Open Super 1000; 06-10 March ->R1 exit
*(4) Malaysia Open Super 750; 02-07 April -> QF exit
*(5) Singapore Open Super 500; 09-14 April -> SF exit
* Badminton Asia Championships (Individual); 23-28 April -> Silver Medalist

Olympics qualification starting :
* Sudirman Cup (Mixed Team); 19-26 May -> Bronze Medalist ; Pts: 11,003 ; Total: 11,003
*(6) Indonesia Open Super 1000; 16-21 July -> Champion; Pts: 12,000; Total: 23,003
*(7) Japan Open Super 750; 23-28 July -> Champion; Pts: 11,000; Total: 34,003
*(8) Thailand Open Super 500; 30 July - 04 August -> QF exit; Pts: 5,040; Total: 39,043
*- World Championships (Individual); 19-25 August -> R2 exit; Pts: 1,200; Total: 40,243
(9) China Open Super 1000; 17-22 Sept
(10) Korea Open Super 500; 24-29 Sept
(11) Denmark Open Super 750; 15-20 Oct
(12) French Open Super 750; 22-27 Oct
(13) Fuzhou China Open Super 750; 05-10 Nov
(?) Hong Kong Open Super 500; 12-17 Nov
- W.T.F; 11-15 Dec

*: competed.

Pts : Points earned in the tournament
Total : Total qualification points earned so far

Edit: I was wrong. It's 1200 points I think for R2 exit.
 
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rhoder said:
No one’s judging a player’s career only based on the ability (or lack thereof) to win a single tournament. At the end of someone’s career, their achievements will be judged in totality for sure, but these majors represent a significant part of their careers. An inability to win something as major as WC would be a point of regret, even if we do not admit it as fans.

Anyway, we’re getting ahead of ourselves. It’s perfectly possible they manage to sneak OG out next year, then all this talk is for naught. But time is running out for them as a pair, whether we like it or not
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They are still all time SS leader and holders of host of records. Pray that they win OG then all these defeats will be forgotten
 
yuquall said:
Then you should blame the service judge for being incompetent. In fact, I don't recall ever saying that it was okay that Marcus not being called fault every time he served high.
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Oh yea I completely agree that the service judges were/are incompetent, or rather lacked the spine to enforce the rules. I'm saying that just because the service judge didn't call a fault, that doesn't mean that the serve was legal, because legality should follow the laws of badminton as defined

Edit: Also, calling the serve "illegal" in this case is not putting blame on Gideon. It's simply stating the fact that it should have been called as a fault, which goes back to my point above on the umpiring.

Now, I don't think they are "cheating". Like all gamesmanship (delay tactics, etc.), this falls in an ethical gray zone. In an ideal world, no player would do it; but it is on the umpire/service judge to call out and stop such behavior (which they are in general doing a terrible job imo)
 
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the one who call marcus serve neck high is complete moron
service judge does not fault marcus serve because he serve below black bar in front of him/her
 
yamsyams said:
Oh yea I completely agree that the service judges were/are incompetent, or rather lacked the spine to enforce the rules. I'm saying that just because the service judge didn't call a fault, that doesn't mean that the serve was legal, because legality should follow the laws of badminton as defined
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But it was "legal" in umpire's point of view because the service judge didn't say it was "illegal". No grey area here, so if it's not illegal it is legal. Point has to be given to one side.

Well, thanks to that now they have changed the service rule. Now we can't blame the service judge anymore for any incompetence because there is no way we can know.
 
yuquall said:
Exactly. Not being called by a service judge just means the service is legal.
Uncalled high serves are unfair and delayed serves are unfair. While high serves rely heavily on service judge's judgment. But Choi was delaying serves to wait till the opponent to be in a "not ready" position to receive. Shouldn't the receiver be in ready position when the shuttle was struck to be legal?
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‘Fair’ implies a normative judgement while ‘legal’ is a positive one, bound by rules and regulations. I don’t know, but let’s say there was a scenario whereby someone who had committed a crime was wrongly acquitted. Would one call his act legal because the judge ruled it so? Or would it be illegal because the act itself violated the laws that are cast in stone? Quite interesting to think about it

ma.ria said:
Sw

Alright, we dont share the same stance.
The point I was going to make was how you can say choi's delayed serve is cheating/dirty? Do you know how many seconds he delayed; 3, 5, 10 secs? Even if you count, which one is categorized as 'acceptable delay' or 'too much delay'? What's the standard?
As far as I know, BWF doesn't regulate it. So it's legal, unless they call that out. You can say it's unfair, but I say it is because like I mentioned before, my standard of fairness is solely based on that call.
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Could I ask you the above question too? Just out of interest haha
 
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Sw
tepokbulu said:
dirty = unfair = cheating
so by delaying the serve, choi is not cheating? because service judge or umpire says nothing about it?
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Alright, we dont share the same stance.
The point I was going to make was how you can say choi's delayed serve is cheating/dirty? Do you know how many seconds he delayed; 3, 5, 10 secs? Even if you count, which one is categorized as 'acceptable delay' or 'too much delay'? What's the standard?
As far as I know, BWF doesn't regulate it. So it's legal, unless they call that out. You can say it's unfair, but I say it is because like I mentioned before, my standard of fairness is solely based on that call.
 
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