This debate will do on and on and on.... While I disagree with match fixing from any country past and present, and strongly believe players should play their best from a baddy fan perspective, but to limit CHN to only 2 players while CHN clearly dominate this sport, denied fans a spectacle to see the world best in contention. If I pay to see this SS finals, I want to see the world best players in action, after all why bother taking time off to fly and pay to see second rate players in action. I am not interested in who takes the gold, I want to see those players in live action showing us all their incredible moves and technics, etc. What I would like to see is there is no restriction on players from any country, and no match fixing, no w/o, and let them play all out to crown the champion...but that is not going to happen, when politics mix in with sport. Looking back, I considered lucky to be in Anaheim for WC05 in which 4 players from different countries in the MSSF, hence no match fixing and no w/o.
Of course we all wanna see the all the best Chineese players in action!!! But I really dont fancy to sit an watch games "mate" vs. "mate" players not "trying" to win.. What I am saying is that if we don't get "real" matches, the lesser of two evils is just to ensure no "team-mates" vs. "team-mates" matchup are possible within the draw until final. Simply treat the MS elimination as a team event, if it actually today is played like that by some players.. /Twobeer
I guess, It's all well if you are their top players,, but it must be quite frustrating and humiliating to have to play 2nd fiddle to the players currently considered to be the "favourites" on the team by the coach... Even if it is illegal, there is no way to 100% proove a match or w/o was fixed.. The only way around it would be to implement regulations to make it less advantageous.. The obvious solution is of course to have limited entries per "team" to the tournamnets, and make sure "team-members" always are on opposites halves of the draw. Maybe requiring players to have separate coaches, and to have players signing for tournaments and price maoney etc as individuals, not by the bodies and organisations in their countries and more clearly separate MS,MD,XD,WS,WD as separate events, may be one way to battle the "team"-thinking for individual events... /Twobeer
Limited entries per "team" to the tournaments Hi twobeer, This is actually happening in other sports... say, Swimming, for example. I just posted this in another thread "To improve the staging of Badminton at International matches" located at: http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50303 Here, is what was posted... Under FINA rules, countries are allowed a maximum of two swimmers per individual event at the Olympics. In the USA and Australia, there are many swimmers who not could participate, but they could meet the time standards to qualify, and they who could beat other nations' top swimmers. Still, many support FINA rules... Why allow a nation to clean sweep all 3 medals (Gold, Silver, Bronze)? Why not allow more nations to participate ? FINA even allow Wildcards for their Olympics events. For those not familiar with Swimming, here is a USA article located at: http://universalsports.nbcsports.com/articles/inside_sport/57?sport_id=21 ====== ====== start article ====== ====== Qualifying FINA, the world governing body for swimming, sets time standards that athletes must meet in order to qualify for the Olympics. Countries are allowed a maximum of two swimmers in each individual event and one team in each relay event. A country may only send two swimmers if those swimmers both qualify under the "A" time standard set by FINA.If a country does not have a swimmer(s) who qualifies for an event under FINA's "A" time, it may still send a swimmer to the Olympics if it has a competitor who meets FINA's "B" standard for an event. In this case, one and only one competitor from a country can contest the particular event. In all cases, a country's National Olympic Committee holds the authority on choosing which competitors who qualify under the time standards will compete in the Games. No nation may enter more than 26 men and 26 women in the swimming competition. 10k open-water qualifying (men and women) Top 10 finishers from the FINA World Open Water Swimming Championships on April 29-May 4, 2008 in Seville, Spain. Top finishers from each of the five continental championships Nine or 10 top finishers, FINA Olympic Marathon Swim Qualifier, May 31-June 8, 2008 in Beijing Total: 25 male athletes, 25 female athletes U.S. trials The United States swimming team for Beijing will be selected in July at the U.S. Swimming Trials in Omaha, Nebraska. Under FINA rules, countries are allowed a maximum of two swimmers per individual event at the Olympics. Since the time standards to qualify for the U.S. Trials are nearly as stringent as those to qualify for the Games, the U.S. will have maximum representation in all 27 individual events on the Olympic program. In the 100m and 200m freestyle events, the top six finishers at the Olympic Trials earned Olympic berths. The top two will swim the 100m and 200m individual events in Athens, while the others will be used to fill out the four-member relay teams. Having two extra swimmers allows those participating individually to skip relay preliminaries. Wildcards Federations(Nations) without qualified swimmers may enter one man and one woman (regardless of time standards) in one competition each of their choice, if the individual(s) participated in the 2007 Swimming World Championships. According to FINA rules, FINA will determine whether to allow the swimmer(s) to compete at the Olympics, "based on their performance." ====== ====== end article ====== ====== I think FINA is more in tune with the Olympics Spirit than our BWF. Cheers... chris@ccc ***
In reality, to have the compatriots play all the way out to beat one another is not quite possible way back from Yang Yang, Zhao Jianhua, Dong Jiong, Sun Jun era. Even if players want to, coaches will discourage fearing of injury. If players are not going to put out their best effort when facing their team mate then fan is not watching the best badminton so the quota system make sense. Malaysia could have more MD qualify to the event but I will be the first one to say is not exciting to watch either. Is more like a practice session than real match when team mate meet one another if not "injury walk". We have so many SS opens that allow all top Chinese to participate and time after time it has proven "team" concept from Chinese players, what else should BWF do? We can argue Super Series Final suppose to be the best of the best, but if the best players chose not to play their best instead to achieve other agenda then really defeat the purpose. The previous Grand Prix Final was so exciting to watch in the 90s because only Sun Jun and Dong Joing were qualified and they didn't meet one another. Gave Indonesia MD pairs credit as I recall they have 4 pairs in Gran Prix Final 1998 and yet played very competitive to win.
i had suggested a contest format to eliminate these w/o and match fixing problem before, i will call it Super Skins (SS). Fans will love it because they pay to see the best and only the best. No more waiting or hoping for a certain tournament draw where certain best meet the other bests. Players like it because the best will make money so they will ALWAY play their best in other tournaments as well to increase ranking to be pick in the Super Skins selection. IE, the skins match will encourage every player to play their best in ALL other tournaments. Problem solved. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39263&highlight=skins
OMG... China will NOT attend... BIG DEAL !!! We should just cancel any tournaments that team China is absent.
Just a question for you guys. Did China withdraw from the SS Finals or they will simply not attend? Either way how can you tell? Thanks
Li Yongbo's reasons for skipping the 2007 Super Series Finals Hi Birdwood, Li Yongbo said that the intensity of the 12 SS schedule of 2007 has taken its toll. He stated that all his players are very tired and they need to rest and to get back to practice for the Beijing Olympics 2008. And because the SS Finals do not give any Olympic ranking points, he decided to skip the event. Cheers... chris@ccc ***
I know the reasoning. I just don't know if they had signed up for the SS Finals, then backed off (truly withdrew from it). Or they had never signed-up to play in he first place (consider to play dose not count). There is a huge difference for that in business deals. I am just curious. BTW, I love your "invitation". It's very clear to me. It's either a qualified Open or Invitation based on qualification, whichever the way to say it.
If the finals were to be held in CHN,I wouldn't be surprised LYB will have his team super ready,tired or otherwise.
Indeed. I don't see why CHN should have any rule over BWF in badminton when it's the other way around.
it's a shame, but one nation's participation should not influence the organisation of an international tournament.
