The example above was taken from 1991 World Championship and 1992 olympic matches. The circumstances are quite similar with your Henman vs Chang example (De La Hoya being the more famous non-white american), yet white american support him instead of his white-non american, less famous opponent. Completely the opposite of your so-called race >>>> nationality argument. Now you're introducing another factor, ppl will pick those who look like themselves........ keep on tacking excuses I guess.... Did I say there's no relationship with race or ethnicity? I'm simply arguing your so-called race >>>>> nationality argument and the example of Henman vs Chang.
I said even in my first post about race/ethnicity, that ordinary people don't bother to investigate your race or ethnicity, they will judge your race or ethnicity by how you look. How come this is a excuses. It is really waste of time to argue with you because you have admitted yourself as pointless.
Talk about the thread going way off topic.. ..surely the last few posts could've been dealt through PM... Anyway, i quickly skimmed over the last few posts and i also got lost. But from what i can digest while skimming them over, my opinions are: - In international play, we (most U.S. folks) would tend to support our team(s) no matter whether the players on the team are mostly white or non-white or mixed. I certainly do. In a way, there's a sense of patriotism. - In domestic/national competitions, of course we tend to cheer on our local or fave team(s). But same deal, I don't think we would look at the race of players on our fave team(s) to be the determining factor in supporting them. - Certain national sports do have more white and non-white players. But I don't think it has anything to do much with race but more on the amt of players available in a particular sport. anyway..
It’s a very subtle sensitive issue; you can only feel it when you know it. You won’t feel it if you don’t know it at the first place. People even cannot control their subconscious. Back to the Chang’s case, every American seems to claim as his fan. You can hardly see anyone against him in the States. This is almost the same as your feeling stated in your post and also what badadum think what Americans are. But if you knew thing a little bit deeper, you would find things are different. I didn’t make up Chang’s story, read other forums, you will see many people sharing the same as me http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=170847&st=60 “I remember some years ago when I watched Michael Chang play in the U.S. Open in New York. The white fans in the audience were cheering for the white European opponent against Chang. Clearly racism took precedent over nationalism.” Even Chang didn’t speak Chinese or Japanese. English was his only language when he was a pro. US passport has been the only passport he has. But he never got home advantage in the US. His home advantage is in China, in Japan, in Taiwan. If you don’t believe that, just google, or ask Chang yourself.
Henman? He always had crowd support because they knew it's crucial so there's a match. It's a compliment to Chang. USO crowd usually supports the underdog. They want value for their money. They want every match to go to 5 sets because USO is the only GS that has a fifth set tiebreak and they felt shortchanged. Only problem is they can't control the weather.
ok... the conclusion is: no matter who supports whom. if it's private choice (one of human rights maybe?...) as long as they can accept when the opponents are better than the player their supported... or if still want to continue, any idea to make new thread? hmm.. maybe new forum. or i think better pm, then. peace...
Let's see the person, not his/her skin colour . Sad isn't it? Is it because we have different coloured skin? Let's see the person, not his/her skin colour. .
the whole point here actually, back to where we started, is to comment on Ajaib and Tommy's cheering for Chinese players. That's the reason the topic is beyond the private messaging. I support Ajaib and Tommy, because as a sports fan, there is no obligation to support his countrymen. Even the most patriot Americans don't. The reason, Ajaib gave, is personal experience on ethnicity. He's right, because that’s even more predominant than nationality in American. I don’t blame it, instead, think they are quite reasonable. Of course, there are more other reasons, like personal flavor, sexual attractiveness, money involved (gambling), personal relationships, …. Therefore, it’s not the right thing to do for blaming the fans not supporting their own country. I support my own country less than 33%, and I’m proud of it. Please give people more freedom to support and cheer for. That’s my 2 cents.
Off topic-My last 2.75 sens.. ..my last post on this..*sigh* - I don't deny racism or race still exists, no matter how much we try to "hide" it. People of all races still have a tendency to "look down" on other minority groups or other races. Why? it's just the inert nature of human beings.. - As for the M. Chang's story, i don't doubt it being true. I don't really care, to be honest. So what if one writer feels that way? Should we all take his opinion heavily? Also, those white fans who cheered on Henman could simply be his fans (U.S. folks or not). IMO, it has nothing to do with them being against U.S. athletes or not. IMO, why M. Chang didn't get the same notoriety as other Asian American athletes here in the U.S. are because he doesn't have the off court appeal like other sports figures; tennis is not really a high profile sport in the U.S. (at least not the top 4); he doesn't command the same presence on court as his other compatriots (U.S. sports fans tend to be tantalized easily by players who have flair & style, that extra "oomph"); and the lack of exposure of Asian athletes as there aren't many Asian/Asian-American competing in professional sports here in the U.S. Do you know Apollo Anton Ono (male speed skater who is half-Asian-Caucasian)? He was quite popular. So were the other athletes mentioned by badadum (yeah, yeah, i know some would say they were popular because had the eyecandy appeal for U.S. male fans blabla; but most important, their actions and results spoke louder). - Individual sports tend to have less American supporters than team sports. U.S. sports mentality tends to be team first. Also, as pjswift mentioned, the U.S. folks will also tend to support underdogs. - If you want to make a case defending Ajaib & tommy_bun, then you should've gone directly back to the related posts. But i think we've veered this enough, until your above post which finally indicates your whole point. - I know you want to make your point across, but i think you are barking @ the wrong tree(s). As far as i can feel, most of the BCers don't mind people from one nationality cheering players from other countries; me included. If you want to bark, please do so & make your point @ the members who were questioning/"blaming" Ajaib & tommy_bun or other INA who are cheering/die hard supporters for other countries' players.. If you want to chit-chat more, you know where to PM me...otherwise, i'll leave my comments as they are..
I am the victim of your reckless barking. Did I blame you at the beginning? My first post on this thread was a comment after reading Ajaib’s touching personal story. Here’s my initial post: Then some people blamed me what I said was untrue. Then you joined in without any invitation to suggest what I said were wrong. Your accusation is so ridiculous.
In this case....if tibetans or uygurs people are being proud of themselves, not as chinese..is that okay? I do not think so in the eye od Chinese government..as they are chinese but do you think those tibetans/uygurs will feel being proud of chinese...I doubt it.... if you want Ajaib or Tommy Bun being proud of being chinese, not as chinese indonesian then you should let those tibetans/uygurs being themselves, if they are not proud of being chinese.. It is perfectly OK to support whoever you want..as long as you do not mock or offend other players..I do not believe that you need to support certain players based on race...if you are based on that like Ajaib's story,,it becomes hate....
You assumption about me is WRONG! IMO, Tibetans should be proud of being Tibetans, So should Uygurs. Your own or their own or everyone's ethnicity is that one's identity. Everyone should be proud of being themselves. If they don't, then that's great too, which implies they have the ability to improve themselves. In the other sense, if they are proud of being Chinese, that's good too. Chinese, as a term, could be a collective group including all the ethnicity in China. You probably have very biased opinion towards Chinese government. Anyway, you are probably somewhat right about some Tibetans or Uygurs, but definitely not all of them, not even majority of them. I have met Dalai Lama, and even shake hands with him. He's a great and nice guy, I'm proud of him too. Almost every sentence you wrote were wrong! I have NO intention to request either Ajaib or Tommy Bun being proud of being Chinese. Where did you draw that weird conclusion. I said he should've, and I am proud of that, which means, I admire that he's proud of being a Chinese which he is an ethnic Chinese but deprived of right to possess their own identity. Now he's brave enough to be proud of himself, that's the think I am happy to see. Same thing even applies to Dalai Lama, He should be proud to a Tibetan (although some rumors saying he's an ethnic Han people by birth). I am happy to see that. I hate to see people living in such a scaring condition even cannot being themselves. I totally accept Tibetan or Uygurs as ethnic groups. I am proud of them too. But the problem about Indonesia is that the ethnic Chinese have been rejected as a ethnic group for decades. If Ajaib were proud of being an Indonesian by heart, that's good too as long as he's NOT forced to do that. I am even more happy to wish him good luck in Indonesia. totally nonsense
It is nosense also...I do not assume you as I do not know you...we are debating about the race....you are just in denial...I am not biased about Chinese government..you just assume everybody is wrong as we do not agree with you...get your own life dude.... Talking about Dalai Lam..hm..hm...did chinese giovernment approve him? NO..NO..NO...if you say chinese gov is okay with that..then you will be in trouble...am I bias now toward chinese government? no..no..even chinese government condemns it publicly about Dalai Lama and Tibetans..Dude.. Look at the bold one....then you are very biased against Indonesia government also...if chinese indonesia felt being rejected...we will not have some chinese indonesian in the government's seat... As you assume everybody is WRONG..then I assume you in this totally WRONG and NONSENSE.... You can accpet them but Tibetans and Uygurs do not want to be part of CHINA...we all know that...Indonesia governemnt does accept Chinese descent..you are just too bias toward INA government too... Dude..read my sentenses carefully...if I am asking is that OKAY or not..I do not assume you are WRONG...you are just too negative in Buddah's teaching....if you have met Dalai Lama, he will telly ou how much negative feelings you have...
good...did Ajaib;s living in a scaring condition in Indonesia? if you said that, why dont you support thefreedom of Tibetans opr Uyguyrs? some report say that they are living in scaring condition..it contradicted your opinion,...it is so confusing....so the question is OKAY or NOT?
By the way, Have I ever supported any player here based on my nationality? The answer is NO. Have I ever support any player here purely based on my race and ethnicity? The answer is NO. Please check all the records on this forum, I never promote nationalism or racism. But I don't miss any chance to fight with them. I can tolerate those crazy patriots and racists like guests in Murray show . but those guys should understand there are still some other people, like me, not sharing that madness.
