not sure in the US... but in Vancouver, Canada, we do have badminton in high school PE classes. Oh, and I just played some backyard bmt in a BBQ event. Kids were trying to smash the plastic bird at me about 5 feet away. But yah... it was fun
Yes, There are school matches in CA and IL as far as I know. In IL, sectional tournaments use feather while school meets are determined by the host school. However majority of schools do use feather for the Varsity team. Plastic is used during practice in school. However, if you go to private club or camp, the feather is used. However, I have seen horrible feathers used in the camp. I just want to say, we are here to support badminton. We do whatever needed to make badminton more popular.
Depends on your definition of good ... Hi Twobear: In my area, things work like this. If you want to play badminton on a regular basis, you need a place to play with lots of players. In our city, there is a badminton club (KW Badminton Club), which has coaching, serious players, and hosts tournaments. The players are good (or learning to be good). Some of them may emerge to the provincial, national ... and potentially the international level. At this level, they would have coaches ... and mostly use feather both for competitive and practice. The fascility is only for badminton, and it has a nice raised wooden floor, very high ceilings etc. They might have up to 200 members in the club ... and it is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. This type of club is used by people who are serious about the sport --- they are training to get better -- or they enjoy the social aspect of the dedicated fascility. There are other badminton clubs around as well. They have between 30 to 150 members (typically). They have certain nights where they offer badminton (usually for 3 hour intervals). The locations are usually schools. All of these clubs use the Mavis birds (either 300, or 350). Many use a magnetic board where names are put on the board with ***, and skill level ... and the next player waiting for a court gets to make a good match. Typically, people pay a membership for a year. Players are generally at least 18 years old, and the oldest players are around 75 years old. Some of the players are in their 6th decade of playing badminton. Many of the players have played competitive badminton at some point in their life --- most of them have been coached at some point in their life. If everyone was playing with feather, that is what I would play with as well. However, 90% of players use the Mavis shuttles around here ... so I am going to play with what the majority use. At the same time, I understand the majority of people use feather in other countries ... so I understand why they use feather. Emba33
I have a good American analogy. Baseball is a very popular sport in many countries. In the most elite baseball league, "Major League Baseball", they must use a wooden bat, and it must conform to certain guidelines. Aluminum bats are very popular in North America -- especially in softball leagues. People who have the potential to play in "Major League Baseball" would play with wooden bats, because that is what they would eventually need to play with. However, many of those players, once past their prime (around age 32), might go on to play in a league where they can use an aluminum bat. Because they use an aluminum bat, it does not mean they are a bad player. I don't know about you, but I can smash nylon, drop nylon, fake nylon, kill nylon, spin nylon, skip nylon, touch nylon, finesse nylon -- and without playing feather, I guess I will never know what I was missing out on. I guess the saying goes, "if you never had it ... you don't miss it". Emba33
Right on! Hi Silentheart: I'm behind what you say 100%. Most people I have introduced to the sport have really enjoyed it -- from a friendly competition perspective, to the exercise, the strategy, the skill shots, etc. Getting people to try it is not the easiest. For one thing, you need to find a good venue ... our local college charges $65/hour for 4 courts. You need people to organize a club (fees, equipment, etc). Who wants the hassle? If you go with feather, the parents have to be willing to flip for the extra expenses. If the you get serious, and get into coaching ... well, we all get the idea. I'm behind the sport ... but it's a tough battle, when others are arguing that playing with a nylon bird is laughable. Very discouraging. Emba33
Thanks for the info Emba! Very interesting to hear hear about how it works over there.. Here in Sweden I have never run across a club with that type of matchup etc. (When I visited Thailand, there was hovever clubs using the similar system as you describe (but they all used feathers) ). Over here all clubs use feeather, and they usually divide players into groups (usually based on age and level) and they usually have some sort of scheduled training-sessions, not only matchplay. There are recreational-leagues using plastic and probably most recreational players just renting courts and play for excersice use plastics.. But not the clubs. Interesting to hear about your experience.. If I was attending those Mavis-clubs I would try to encourage people to switch over to using for example AS-30 instead of Mavis 350. I actually think many of the "oldies" having played feathers in the youth would enjoy it.. Do you bring your own shuttles, or is it provided by the club? What if a player shows up and proposes a game using fethers? Doesn't the other players want to play him? /Twobeer
Would be interesting to know.. Maybe different in different states.. Only time I played in US they had a gym with horrible lighting and multiple lines. And during the 2 hour session two colored guys that had been playing basketball at the court next to us, where standing staring and then stared to ask alot of question what type of game we where playing /Twobeer
The group training in Vancouver uses only feather. Recreational players who rent courts a few times a week use a combination of nylon and feather. Club players, no matter how beginner they are, use only feather.
Yeah, I had a US client who once asked me why Canadian postal code is "so funny" compared to the US's and said, "What is bad mint ton?" .
depends where u go: freelance coach: will use whatever kind of shuttle his client desired. Feather is extra cost bear by the client. If u just want to pay for coaching fee only, he will use mavis. private clubs: 95% feather and 5% mavis. These clients are usually rich. Paying kim dong moon or ardy wiranata for coaching is like buying a soda pop for them. Also, people trained here usually have tournament play in mind, so of course they use feather. However, when i go to play there, i sometime see a class for young students who the coach use mavis. If u can't yet smash 100+ mph, mavis is good enough. Here, i believe all high school and below use mavis 350 for competition. A playing buddy of mine who her daugther is #1 - #2 national WS & XD for U14, had ask me to rally with her daughter using mavis 350 because she has a school tournament next week.
depends where u go: freelance coach: will use whatever kind of shuttle his client desired. Feather is extra cost bare by the client. If u just want to pay for coaching fee only, he will use mavis. I dont want to name names here but i personal know 2 top 3 national MS who has coached using mavis. I had watched them coached so it is not made up stories. There likely more cases but i can't here everywhere all the time. To tell u, i was coached with mavis too for the period i was coached. He was a coach from china came to canada. He was a provincial coach in china for the lady team, i forgot which chinese province as his mandarian pass through my head. His credential was he once coached wang wen who became #1 MS champ in canada when he set foot in canada. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48648&highlight=wang private clubs: 95% feather and 5% mavis. These clients are usually rich. Paying kim dong moon or ardy wiranata for coaching is like buying a soda pop for them. Also, people trained here usually have tournament play in mind, so of course they use feather. However, when i go to play there, i sometime see a class for young students who the coach use mavis. If u can't yet smash 100+ mph, mavis is good enough. Why pretend u r better than the rest just because u r using feather? Personally i do not believe at all that initial training with plastic will ruin your competitive playing with feather in your future year. Taneepak is just scaring little boys and girls. Here, i believe all high school and below use mavis 350 for competition. A playing buddy of mine who her daugther is #1 - #2 national WS & XD for U14, had ask me to rally with her daughter using mavis 350 because she has a school tournament next week.
maybe a canadian national title doesn't sound too impressive for some, i just want to add that wang wen did won the provincial MS title back in china before he emigrated to canada.
there so many flaws in your statement that i will tackle it bit by bit. cooler said: A five speed automatic cost more than a 5 speed manual too, just like feather cost more than plastic. twobeer said: Price of a manual F1 gearbox is certainly higher than the automatics I have seen §.. twobeer, F1 gearbox IS an automatic LOL. Well, it's 99% automatic since it leave 1% behind as manual for driver control - like flipping or pushing a button if one call this a manual action. Wow, lotta work and human feel here LOL. If this is not easy i dunno what is. It cost more than the older manual clutched engaged F1 gearbox too. LOL. here is my quick search, article 1 Automated Manual Gearbox Ferrari F355 F1 - Experience how Schumacher shifts his battle car 0-60 mph : 4.7 sec 0-100 mph : 10.8 sec 0-1/4 mile : 13.1 sec / 111 mph Kerb weight : 1425 kg Having read the above data, you might think this must be an ordinary F355. No, it is actually the latest semi-automatic version, F355 F1. This shows the most important advantage over Porsche Tiptronic etc.: there is virtually no performance loss. As indicating by its name, F355 F1's gearbox was developed from Ferrari's Formula One semi-automatic gearbox which made its debut in 1989, powering Nigel Mansell's 640 racer to win the opening race - Brazil GP - from Prost and Senna. (I can still remember how stunning when I watched it live from TV). Although the Ferrari didn't win championship that year, it demonstrated the superiority and feasibility of semi-automatic, eventually became standard for every F1 team. Ferrari's system used in F355 F1 was based on the 6-speed manual gearbox of the standard F355, but with the traditional mechanical-link shifting mechanism replaced by an electronic clutch and a high-pressure hydraulic shift actuator. It had 3 different operating modes. In normal city driving, most drivers may choose the fully automatic mode, in which the computer made gearshift automatically by analysing engine rev, load and throttle. However, it wasn't as smooth as a true automatic gearbox because of the lack of hydraulic torque converter. For quick drive, push the switch on transmission tunnel to sport position, the gearbox will be under the driver's control. Gearshift is implemented by flicking the large paddles mounted at the steering column and behind the steering wheel. One paddle for upshift and another for downshift. The most superior of the gearbox is how well it integrate clutch action and gearshift together. Within milliseconds since the driver press the gearshift paddle, the computer starts simulating how Michael Schumacher's feet work - ease the electronic throttle, then disengage the electronic clutch, and then signal the hydraulic actuator to shift to another gear - all these actions are taken progressively and smoothly. ---------------------------------------------------- article 2 But the engine cannot power a Formula 1 car on its own, it needs the help of a gearbox - and that’s not your standard five-speed road car transmission with gear stick and clutch. In Panasonic Toyota Racing’s TF107, there is no clutch and no gear stick, instead the driver flicks a lever behind his steering wheel to change up or down and the gearbox makes the change. A new development for the team’s 2007 car is a ‘seamless shift’ gearbox, which maintains constant acceleration even when the driver changes gear. This gets the car to top speed quicker than the previous technology. ---------------------------------------------- article 3 In the world of the semi-automatic gearbox, of course, there is no need for the driver to even think about this - his electronics do it all for him! All the driver is required to input is when he wants to change up or down a gear, and the electronics controlling the gearbox and clutch do the rest. The advantages here, over and above the fact that the driver can keep his hands on the wheel at all times, is that the whole process can be done in a split second (much quicker than a manual clutch could be operated) and also that the wear on the clutch pads is less because it is never held half-on, and so this increases reliability. Again, teams have tried to use carbon fibre for clutch material, with limited success. --------------- I remembered Lexus had sold a semi-auto stick/clutchless shifting version in one of their model as well before. Yes, even the pro driver like and prefer automatic shifting too, just like how badminton pro like the easier to control feathers over plastic twobeer, u owe me a beer or two
So they actually save used Mavises for use in multi-shuttle drills, or does the coach provide new mavises free of charge included in the coaching fee? Do they really charge extra for using used feathers for multi-shuttle drills?? /Twobeer
depending how much fee the coach charges. For one on one, games, demo, they use new or like new mavis. For multi shuttle drills, they use used mavis. Of course, they dont use really really worn out mavis. Mavis prolly go thru 1 week of abuse before it is tossed away as not fit for training purpose It depend on the shuttle condition. It is common sense, just like feather training as well
twobeer, u see how well the new semi auto transmission is accepted and adopted by the pro f1 drivers, because it is easier so the driver can focused on driving. To say plastic player is less competent is like saying f1 driver who are still using the old maunal gearbox (plastic shuttle) incompetent too because manual gearbox(plastic player) can't win races (tournaments) anymore against the automatic gearbox competitors (feather players). When manual driver tried automatics, they don't like to go back to manual gearbox, just like when plastic player tried feather, they prefer feather too. However, one shouldn't class plastic player as beginner or feather players better players. Once u accustomed to feathers(automatic gearbox), it is normal to hate the plastic (manual gearbox). I do not know one plastic player who hated feather, while we do know hardcore feather players hated the plastic. Going back to difficult manual shifting is hard once we gotten use to the smooth seamless effortless shifing of an automatic.... Wouldn't u agree with me now that manual shifting (plastic playing) required more skills?
twobeer said: I don't think you can present an backup-up facts proving that plastics somehow should be more difficult to use than feathers. Its all in your biased view. it is not my biased view but rather my extensive observation and experience with both plastic and feather playing. The interaction between shuttle and stringbed during impact is an extremely complex process. Since plastic skirt distorts more(which knowledgeable plastic players will not deny), the more complex the process and more unpredictable is the resulting rebound velocity, angle and rotation of the plastic shuttle. Plastic players are aware of this, maybe to different degree for each plastic player. Since i dont have the definitive mathematical proof or extensive lab research to give u the hard data proof, this is the best i can give u for now, it came from new_scientist article http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14119164.500:D I bet u read it too but somehow u also made the above (green) statement which kind of baffled me ========= The inward collapse of the skirt is a complex process that depends on how the shuttle is hit. In most shots, the racket hits the skirt as well as the nose of the shuttle. For example when the shuttle is hit high up in the air - a shot known as a high clear - it can descend almost vertically and if the next shot is an overhead smash the racket will hit the skirt as well as the nose. COMPLEX COLLISIONS Roy Buckland, a badminton coach and a mathematician specialising in flight dynamics, says that the more the skirt collapses, the more complex the collision between racket and shuttle becomes, making the shot more difficult to control. The fine-tuning players achieve with feather shuttles cannot be reproduced with a synthetic shuttle. Small variations in the way the racket and plastic skirt make contact lead to large differences in the way the skirt deforms, making control harder. ========== ie, the predictibility quality of a feather shuttle upon impact can not be duplicated by a synthetic shuttle. Knowledgeable plastic players are not denying this. There are a few other things plastic does that feather doesn't do too nor discovered/disclosed by new_scientist but i'll keep that in my sleeve for competitive reasons
u see twobeer and taneepak, a dedicated feather player can do more things with a feather shuttle than plastic player can, so is the same for a dedicated plastic player can do more things with a plastic shuttle than from a feather player. It all come down to which standard of reference one is making the claim of a 'better' player. Since bwf tournaments and most high level competition are restricted to feather playing only, there is no doubt that feather pros can exhibit a lot of stroke skills that a plastic player can't because we are referencing to feather playing context. (assuming other variable being equal like stamina, footwork, etc). Also because plastic is not a tournament shuttle, what purpose for a plastic player pursue pro level plastic playing? I'm sure those very good feather players out there can be just as good plastic players in a plastic realm if they want to be trained that way
I don't know how many time I have to repeat things to make it clear to you that I have never stated that plastic players are incompetent... Is my english not clear enough?? Or are you so tied up arguing your point, that you don't bother to listen to others views? I have argued that CURRENT plastic shuttles (MAVIS in particular from Yonex) don't have as good properties flight-wise, compared to CURRENT natural feathers from makers like Yonex, RSL, Gosen, Victor, Carlton , Head, YangYang, SeaLion, Trump, Tronex, Winex, Tactic, Hi-Qua, Aeroplane, Wilson, Black-knight just to name a few brands. Your analogy with cars and F1 is seriously flawed (as I treid to point out earlier). It would be more convenient (and faster) to let a computer shift gears, instead of the drivers. Automatic gearbox is not allowed in F1, They still have to shift manually (albeit clutchless) Fully automatic gearbox is BANNED in F1 (plastic)... ABS is banned. Traction controll is banned, launch control is banned, active suspension is banned.. Turbos are banned. Engine size is restricted. and so on so on.. The reaason for this is to lower the speed and put more demand on driver skill. And btw the F1 gearbox is neither cheap or known for its longlivety And definitvely more expensive to produce than the older gearboxes. Back to the analogy of rubberboots on a 400m tack&field race /Twobeer
