Choi/seo beat the number 1 seed today, and choi was actually the best player on court. I think choi/seo has some potential, and I wouldn't blame BKA if they choose choi/seo over ko/shin.
Shin Baek Cheol
- Thread starter Sealman
- Start date
yuquall
Regular Member
Right. I am sure they will bring home some medals unlike the other Korean pairs in 2016.
j4ckie
Regular Member
Personally I'd choose the pair that shows better performance over the qualification period. I wouldnt even blame them if they picked the younger pair if they're lower ranked and its really close - but I have the feeling that there isnt even a decision waiting to be made.....
While this was a good match, I would extrapolate from it. Especially since its been rumored that Ko/Shin are only not at the WC because the Korean association gracefully declined their invitation without asking the pair first. I really hope they actually meet in a tournament and Ko can once again put Choi in his place - he seems like a grade A c**t from what I've seen over the last few days.
Ch1k0
Regular Member
I think you're neglecting to mention that the minions were making many uncharacteristic errors too. Granted Choi was on fire for that match and made very few mistakes unlike his NORMAL self. Do they have some potential? Maybe a bit, but in general I think they're a dead end. They're extremely form dependent despite being hard workers. Both are known for having only occasional moments of brilliance like today.
Seo is seriously lacking in power as the man in the mixed department especially and it's wasting the talent of Chae Yoojung because he just can't get her into the game in the best way possible.
BKA are just dumb idiots who are incapable of selecting people to represent the country based on their ability. I would bet on Ko/Shin to deliver any day over any of the existing Korean men's doubles on the national team.
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Ch1k0
Regular Member
Choi is just really good at wasting time serving. I thought Boe was bad but I don't remember getting this annoyed watching him serve.
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j4ckie
Regular Member
Want to get upset for real? Watch the 2018 Korea Masters XD final. Annoying is too mild a word for it
yuquall
Regular Member
Ahh, thank you! I had been trying to recall what tournament it was for daysWant to get upset for real? Watch the 2018 Korea Masters XD final. Annoying is too mild a word for it
ant01
Regular Member
I don't see the problem with Choi's serve, it works perfectly against players who want to play at lightning speed all the time. I'd watch him play any day over a certain Boe. But of course I really wanted to watch Shin&Ko play this WC but they declined for some reason? I have no idea what Korean goals are at the moment, and it's really confusing with pairs switching all the time.
visor
Regular Member
Lol... Iirc he got a red card fault for repeated delay in receiving serve.Want to get upset for real? Watch the 2018 Korea Masters XD final. Annoying is too mild a word for it
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Ch1k0
Regular Member
Want to get upset for real? Watch the 2018 Korea Masters XD final. Annoying is too mild a word for it
Oh I recall that match very well. He was wasting time receiving as well. Understandably Ko serves fast but he was deliberately wasting time still after being warned. And it was visible that Ko had slowed down at least a bit on rushing the serve after being warned.
More often than not he pushes the 5 second rule now. I'm more surprised he wasn't warned for it. Watch the match and count how many minutes were ****ing wasted just waiting for him to serve.
I get your point on controlling the pace through the service but his is excessive. And his only variation in serving is either a low serve to the same spot all the time, or flick, or drive serve. No change in angle or direction sideways. Its horribly one dimensional and boring to watch because it generally doesn't work. Their win loss statistics proves it.
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j4ckie
Regular Member
Indeed he did
It's excessive. Take your time, sure, but once I'm in the ready position to receive your serve because you got ready, I'm only waiting so long. I'd simply raise my hand again after like 3s and go to the umpire to complain, waiting that long every single time is also mentally tiring. I'm guessing that might actually be the goal - to either slow reactions to his serve (opponent not keeping their attention up well enough) or tiring them out (getting them to focus intently for much longer than needed).
There's a reason he gets warning and cards, and we all know bwf umpires are definitely not on the strict side.
As a spectator (and opponent) of course it is annoying to watch the excessive delay. But athletes will always push the boundaries as far as possible to their own benefit. And if the only person that has a say on it doesn't say anything, what other people think is of no consequence. It's annoying but not any more than KSS's jestering and provocative antics.
I guess in reality, it's a difficult call for an umpire, to accurately time how long the delay is, when to start the clock, what about the delay before getting into position? What if they serve just on the 5 second mark? Do you fault it? And will they really use a stop watch on every serve? I think until the technology is there to assist with these kind of things, we will always get players who will delay their serve.
Against rushers its a great tactic to vary the timing of the delivery and have a slight delay. And if it helps them beat the world no.1, and is within the rules as the umpire perceives it, so be it. The minions were beaten on strategy and not true ability although we've certainly seen them play much better before.
I guess in reality, it's a difficult call for an umpire, to accurately time how long the delay is, when to start the clock, what about the delay before getting into position? What if they serve just on the 5 second mark? Do you fault it? And will they really use a stop watch on every serve? I think until the technology is there to assist with these kind of things, we will always get players who will delay their serve.
Against rushers its a great tactic to vary the timing of the delivery and have a slight delay. And if it helps them beat the world no.1, and is within the rules as the umpire perceives it, so be it. The minions were beaten on strategy and not true ability although we've certainly seen them play much better before.
j4ckie
Regular Member
I wouldnt go as far as saying that they beat the minions only because of the delayed serving. They won the rallies too - and didnt score a lot of points in the service situation, so I'd say it wasnt the deciding factor. What I really liked was how they kept trying to finish on Marcus, not risking a lot of Kevin's surprising last effort defense shots catching them off guard, and also how they moved Marcus around when they were defending and IF playing to Kevin, doing so with a precise block he couldnt do much more with than play it back to the net. Very good approach, and more importantly, very good that they actually managed to implement it, which most pairs fail to - because it's very hard.
Actually, once you get past the annoying service delays (keeping a finger on the right arrow key is a blessing for this), it's a very very enjoyable match to watch.
PS Gideon seemed very frustrated. Notice how he 'angry' celebrates, especially in the second half of the second game. He only does that when he feels threatened. Part of the Korean game plan, I'd assume.
Actually, once you get past the annoying service delays (keeping a finger on the right arrow key is a blessing for this), it's a very very enjoyable match to watch.
PS Gideon seemed very frustrated. Notice how he 'angry' celebrates, especially in the second half of the second game. He only does that when he feels threatened. Part of the Korean game plan, I'd assume.
yuquall
Regular Member
I supposed all these things said of Choi was caused and provoked by some claiming Choi was a better player than Ko/shin or even the best player in Korea just because Choi just successfully beat Seed #1.
For those who "hate" Kevin because of his provocative antics, it's funny how they always "provoke" reactions from the fans of whom the threads were dedicated for by praising other athlete and didn't see it as an insult or disrespectful thing to do.
For those who "hate" Kevin because of his provocative antics, it's funny how they always "provoke" reactions from the fans of whom the threads were dedicated for by praising other athlete and didn't see it as an insult or disrespectful thing to do.
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let the koreans beat marvin without those stupid services
i think they can't
maybe can after 5 attemps
yuquall
Regular Member
Oh please. Do you need to be everywhere?
That's what I meant. I didn't say they won it by delaying the serve. They won it through employing the right strategy. As on ability, they are not on par with the minions.
You mentioned attacking Gideon and also finishing with him, yes this was definitely a deliberate strategy, but there were many others too. They flick served a lot against Gideon and also used the two rear corners more to pull the minions deep and wide with flat drives/attacking clears, this is perhaps one of the areas they don't cover very well. With their defence they lifted just over Kevin's reach or too flat so he couldn't get any angle to work with - essentially neutralizing his strengths/ taking him out of the rally. Choi also took on Kevin in the flat game as well which I think was a bit of a surprise but you will notice he targeted Kevin quite a lot whenever he was in the midcourt area. They also mixed up a lot of cross court attacks for anything shy of the rear court which others have had a bit a success with. Delaying the serve was just one aspect that I think did work quite well against Gideon, he was always the one that is less consistent around the net so preventing him anticipating too much was a great tactic.
So yes, we should give them some credit on ability and probably because the minions weren't at their best but my view is they won largely due to strategy.
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j4ckie
Regular Member
I dont think a lot the people annoyed by KSS are fine with Choi's less than desirable attributes...if you look back at the KM final vs Ko, I cant see any provocation at all there, yet he and Shin start a whole lot of drama and even had the gall to act annoyed in the third game, complaining Ko served too fast (Shin even served too early on purpose as a form of protest)....
Anyway, one of the reasons I'm a fan of Ko/Shin is that I've never ever seen any sort of aggression towards opponents, delay tactics or anything at all that someone would consider dirty or borderline. Even Ko's celebration after every point are pretty mild compared to most others who do that. I really hope they can make some waves soon after missing out on the WC for (yet) unclear reasons...
yuquall
Regular Member
Oh never mind about my rant
I didn't mean it that way. I just can't understand how someone could say something like Ko/Shin could say goodbye to their Olympics spot because Choi just managed to win one certain match. When we all know why Ko/Shin would probably never be selected anyway... 
Yeah I watched that match against Ko too. I am usually not one who would mind or get easily pissed off by annoying antics or characters but I don't know why Choi just did that time, big time
Glad Ko shut him up right then right there.Anyway, Ko/Shin will play in Chinese Taipei Open next, then China Open S1000 and Korea Open S500 after that. I hope they will thrive there too.