SCG Thailand Open 2012 Comment on Matches (Main Draw)

[Jonc108]

back when i was in college, i was taking a math class, i think it was on vector calculus. on the day that the professor handed back our test, there were some visiting students from another college sitting in the class.my test result came back pretty well, i think i got a 95/100, a pretty good score given the class. upon seeing my test score, one of the visiting student said to me, "why don't you give other people a chance?"i was a bit stunned. the concept that i have to degrade myself and underachieve in order to let other people "have a chance" has never been in my dictionary, ever. human being should strive to better themselves all the time and strive to become better and better, that's how we evolve.back to the context of badminton, i think China is doing well to constantly improving the standard of badminton. badminton today is getting more and more exciting. other countries should strive to improve their skills to match China. fans should recognize that and shouldn't expect China to come down to other people's standard, because that will never happen, at least not intentionally.

Well said Kwan.


Looking from another perspective, i dare to say nowadays people misused or abuse the concept of democracy in many other areas like this. majority of the world's people are mediocre, if u put to vote, their preferrence will of course prevail. This is the reason why there is ppl always like to claim that the majority of fans here (other than Jia-You fans) blame China for their doing too well and so this represents the mainstream justice.


Well it could be only the mainstream, but not justice.


Why blame those doing good jobs? Why elites must lower their achievements to become as mediocre as others? If so, we would have no Steve Jobs, no Michael Jordon, no Einstan.... No everything! The world will just stay as status quo and no advancement!I dare to say such narrow mind attitude also exists in badminton national bodies of many countries, and this is the major obstacle preventing badminton sports' advancement.

 

[laonong]

I saw the gap is narrowing in just 20 years at least in my area. Even in US, many of those top university star professors are from China. My friend's so just got offer letter to a Harvard PHD program after graduated from another top US university and asked me whether I know (not personally) any professor that her son can chose as his advisor, so I checked their web site and found than around 50% are from China.

 

[pcll99]

I saw the gap is narrowing in just 20 years at least in my area. Even in US, many of those top university star professors are from China. My friend's so just got offer letter to a Harvard PHD program after graduated from another top US university and asked me whether I know (not personally) any professor that her son can chose as his advisor, so I checked their web site and found than around 50% are from China.

Is it engineering or something related? All the good professors in China want to leave China for the USA. Why?

 

[rogerv2]

Cross-posting, sorry, but I thought it's relevant:

"Apparently, China's phenomenal,unprecedented success and domination is beginning to breed some resentment in her rivals and their fans (more so) going by what's expressed in this forum as if it's China's fault. But before they gripe and grouse, they have to ask themselves whether they want a levelling up or down in standards, in other words,do they want the rest of the world to rise to China's standard or China to come down to their standards?"

Rest of the world should up their standards of course. However I think everyone is hoping for fair play and no team orders. If China can do this then it would be a perfect for the sport.

 

[cobalt]

I think a bit too much is being made of a relative few peole who may "resent" China's steel grip over the game. I put "resent" in quotes because I have also noticed that most of the posts that may have sounded like they were from a "resentful" person were in response to some pretty intimidatory and uncouth posts of a jeering nature. But lets move on from there....

No thinking person would begrudge China their pre-eminent position in badminton. They are there because they deserve to be there. They have raised the bar, if not directly on personal performance and skill, then certainly on team performance, consistency, processes, strategy, redundancy, conditioning (physical and mental) and nurturing. Other national teams and associations can learn a lot from them.

Most people here on BC also understand that the quality of performance level of consistency in most other traditional powerhouse countries have plummetted. Their anguish is there to be read in many threads, and is no secret. They may envy China or openly or secretly respect China, but few resent China for their success.

If there is any single point of resentment and disgust, it is the issue of manipulation of ranking, matches, etc that has been happening for some time. Some people will attempt to justify it with circular logic, but the simple fact is that such practices are in direct conflict with integrity. I'm not even talking terms like ethics.

No one ever wants a sport to achieve the level of the lowest common denominator. Professional sports is about highest achievement and about constantly raising the bar in every way. Fairly. China has achieved this for the most part, no question. What has happened to the level and cohesiveness of the sport at the pro level in other countries has nothing to do with individual skills and stuff. It is all about evolution, one way or another. Those countries are busy making new omelettes, and are breaking a whole lot of different eggs along the way. It happens.

 

[Justin L]

Rest of the world should up their standards of course. However I think everyone is hoping for fair play and no team orders. If China can do this then it would be a perfect for the sport.

Team orders do not affect China's or the ROW's standards because the players still have to beat each other. As to why they do that,don't you know the reason already, BWF's discriminatory rules against China who still play by the rules despite that. If any other country has 3 or 4 top players fighting for 2 -3 OG spots, I believe they will do the same - forgot what Gopichand said that we should learn from China? To give a specific example,when LD gave way to CJ,if you were their next round opponent,would you rather play LD or CJ?

 

[Justin L]

The West have been reigning for more than 200 years when China ended their 18 centuries (first 18 of the 20 centuries) domination due to thier various internal problems. Her rise now is never in confrontation with or at the expense of the West or rest of the world. The West's decline is of their own making. Martin Jacques is absolutely right ,knowing that America will never settle for second best, to say that "It is the American relationship with and attitude toward China, Jacques argues, that will determine whether the twenty-first century will be relatively peaceful or fraught with tension, instability, and danger." That's why China is always talking about her peaceful rise, peacful co-existence and mutual cooperation. It is up to America whether she wants engagement or containment. Peace and Love to the world.

 

[Justin L]

back when i was in college, i was taking a math class, i think it was on vector calculus. on the day that the professor handed back our test, there were some visiting students from another college sitting in the class.

my test result came back pretty well, i think i got a 95/100, a pretty good score given the class. upon seeing my test score, one of the visiting student said to me, "why don't you give other people a chance?"

i was a bit stunned. the concept that i have to degrade myself and underachieve in order to let other people "have a chance" has never been in my dictionary, ever. human being should strive to better themselves all the time and strive to become better and better, that's how we evolve.

back to the context of badminton, i think China is doing well to constantly improving the standard of badminton. badminton today is getting more and more exciting. other countries should strive to improve their skills to match China. fans should recognize that and shouldn't expect China to come down to other people's standard, because that will never happen, at least not intentionally.

Wow,95 upon 100, you must be a maths wizard. Yes, it is by everyone doing their very best to advance standards that we all benefit in the end, better doctors,engineers,scientists,etc. But as to whether humanity as a whole actually enjoy the results fairly is a another matter which is a socio-economic-political issue. Science in the greater part of the world isn't exactly neutral.

 

[Justin L]

Oh no, Kevin Cordon is getting the better of Kashyap

Sorry,wrong thread.

 

[Justin L]

As I've also stated elsewhere, if BWF or IOC (for the OG), does not impose the limiting rule and simply allow all the top 16/32 ranked athletes to qualify ,we know what's going to happen in those sports China dominates. Then how many countries will be represented in the Olympics? It will be against the spirit of the Olympic Games which is more about participation,universality than winning.

In badminton,no matter what China did,she can only get one more player in, unlike table-tennis where she is even more dominant yet strictly two allowed,no exception made.

 

[Justin L]

Imagine you were Wang Shixian,only just dropped to no.4 after being no.3 for quite a while, yet not qualifiied to participate in the Olympics,a once in a lifetime dream for many including yourself,how do you feel?

Chen Jin had to try so hard,playing in 22 tournaments for the qualifying year and risking injury, the hardest-working player in the world - the moment he knew he qualified he threw his match to P Kashyap, by conceding a walkover, who then also immediately qualified - are we going to begrudge him?

 

[sen]

Team orders do not affect China's or the ROW's standards because the players still have to beat each other. As to why they do that,don't you know the reason already, BWF's discriminatory rules against China who still play by the rules despite that. If any other country has 3 or 4 top players fighting for 2 -3 OG spots, I believe they will do the same - forgot what Gopichand said that we should learn from China? To give a specific example,when LD gave way to CJ,if you were their next round opponent,would you rather play LD or CJ?

Some blamed the Olympic qualification rules but remember that there were team orders before that. During previous Olympic. They admitted it.

 

[pjswift]

As I've also stated elsewhere, if BWF or IOC (for the OG), does not impose the limiting rule and simply allow all the top 16/32 ranked athletes to qualify ,we know what's going to happen in those sports China dominates. Then how many countries will be represented in the Olympics? It will be against the spirit of the Olympic Games which is more about participation,universality than winning. In badminton,no matter what China did,she can only get one more player in, unlike table-tennis where she is even more dominant yet strictly two allowed,no exception made.

Don t understand your logic. If table tennis only allows strictly two, and badminton allows three, BWF s giving a 50% bonus, isn t it? So why is BWF giving CHN the bonus?

 

[Justin L]

Some blamed the Olympic qualification rules but remember that there were team orders before that. During previous Olympic. They admitted it.

Ye Zhaoying cried, Gong Zichao who came to know later (not before the match) was embarrassed and displeased. LYB was the bad guy, he did it for China , not for Ye or Zhao or anybody else. That's LYB, not me. Whether other coaches would have done the same or not,I don't know, I cannot speak for them. I won't,because how sure am I Ye cannot beat Camilla. But I won't be an armchair critic, I'm not doing his job, I don't have the capability.

 

[Justin L]

Don t understand your logic. If table tennis only allows strictly two, and badminton allows three, BWF s giving a 50% bonus, isn t it? So why is BWF giving CHN the bonus?

Maybe when CHN's badminton is as dominant as her table-tennis,they will do it. For now CHN should be grateful and thank BWF and IOC for their generosity Wang Shixian, just shut up and accept your fate, nobody should feel sorry for you, you're just not good enough even though you were world no.1 not too long ago,never mind that you're still world no.4. Who cares about logic?!

 

[pjswift]

Maybe when CHN's badminton is as dominant as her table-tennis,they will do it. For now CHN should be grateful and thank BWF and IOC for their generosity Wang Shixian, just shut up and accept your fate, nobody should feel sorry for you, you're just not good enough even though you were world no.1 not too long ago,never mind that you're still world no.4. Who cares about logic?!

That Olympic rule is made not because of domination. The domination logic is often given by CHN fans. Look at other sports where CHN is weak. Does the Olympic rule still apply? Of course. Yet we have CHN fans continuing to argue this rule is there to limit CHN. If the athlete is really good, just having one to represent will do. And I hope Liu Xiang wins the gold to prove that!

 

[limsy]

i cant see ina fans crying around because kido/setiawan didnt make it to OG 2012
but SOME chinese fans...................

 

[Justin L]

To add, in table-tennis, CHN has won OG gold,silver and bronze in practically every discipline, individual and team, in badminton never, at least not yet. And Olympics is about participation,all countries coming together as one big happy family, it's not all about winning, that's why.

So this 2+1 on certain conditions is a concession, CHN should just take it and smileCome to think of it,if not for this +1 thing, CHN needn't have to go to such great lengths and be accused of "all those things" - we don't or hardly hear of it in table-tennis

 

[Justin L]

That Olympic rule is made not because of domination. The domination logic is often given by CHN fans. Look at other sports where CHN is weak. Does the Olympic rule still apply? Of course. Yet we have CHN fans continuing to argue this rule is there to limit CHN. If the athlete is really good, just having one to represent will do. And I hope Liu Xiang wins the gold to prove that!

If domination isn't a problem,why limit? And I repeat,Olympics is about participation,they want as many countries represented as possible, which is why they also introduce this wildcard entry rule to admit those small and weak countries whose athletes may otherwise not meet the standards to take part.

 

[Justin L]

i cant see ina fans crying around because kido/setiawan didnt make it to OG 2012
but SOME chinese fans...................

Good for the INA fans, as for those "some Chinese fans", let them cry for all I care. I don't, all I want to see is beautiful badminton by the best in the world and fulfilling the Olympic goals of participation,universality and the world coming together as one