i think u r barking up the wrong tree. My reply post to malayali was to demonstrate the poor linkage between type of shuttle to skills of players, not which kind of shuttle is better. My 2 MS games experiment was not to define which kind of shuttle play better or feel better. All your past posts say feather is better than plastic shuttle and this is your subjective opinion. Matter of fact, I never disputed feather feels and control better than plastic. However, to make conclusion about player skills and potential to kind of shuttle played is dangerously weak. Both shuttle required the player to possess unique set of skills to be good with it. It is bwf that determine which kind of shuttle that competitive playerss train with. Outside competition, the criteria of cost usually prevail. In the western countries, we have more choices. Those who play plastic see the tradefoff of better feel to their pocketbook isn't worth it for them. In asia, the choice is less, plastic isnt widely available, so beginners over there start out with feathers. It's all about choice and adaptability. If the fussy french and chinese diners willing to eat from pizza hut, KFC and McDonald, i surely believe they will come to accept plastic shuttles, if good plastic are readily available to them.
lol, ok ok, but u can't knock my feather vs plastic argument on those typos. If u see her, u would be making those typos too
Yes, I can /Twobeer P.S. I realize I am in danger zone here with english not being my first language ...
And I have never argued that your skill is tied to what equipment you use I am happy to hear that you agree that feather feels better and controls better. Players are free to train with shuttles of their choice, I do not think BWF restrict players training. But I am happy that the torunaments are required to use shuttles with stable shirts that don't fold and become bullets, and that has good "control and feel" for the players. That we would have more choices shuttle wise in Canada and Sweden compared to Thailand, malaysia, China etc. is pure nonsense!! Its much easier to buy a mavis tube in KL than it is to buy a tube of AS-50 in Stockholm!! It is strange to read your 180 degree turn. after arguing that it is so hard to get shuttles with correct speed where you live, that the choices for you are so much greater than in for example Hong Kong... Meybe we should try to promote a little bit of french or Chineese cousine instead of just trying to promote how great pizza hut "really" is, and how we need to introduce it more to the already obese kids /Twobeer
Look at it from another perspective. With feathers you have much more points in space to hit the shuttle to, more variations of flight trajectory and shuttle speed. You can also "kill" the shuttle by slowing down the bird. Deceptive strokes take on a different meaning. Slow reverse slice drops are an art that plastics can only dream of.
hardliners: u know who infidels: plastic players Feb 28, 2008 McDonald’s Sales Strong Thanks to Nations that Hate US http://www.scribd.com/doc/2162406/McDonalds-sales-increase
If you agree to the fact that the feather feels and control better than plastic, are you disputing that players using inferior shuttles will not get affected in their skills in the long run??? That is kind of far fetched to believe..... Agreed that while using plastics one can develop certain particular skills but while using feathers, one can develop more variety of badminton skills than plastics.... Yes??? Quote:[ Originally Posted by cooler i think u r barking up the wrong tree. My reply post to malayali was to demonstrate the poor linkage between type of shuttle to skills of players, not which kind of shuttle is better. My 2 MS games experiment was not to define which kind of shuttle play better or feel better. All your past posts say feather is better than plastic shuttle and this is your subjective opinion. Matter of fact, I never disputed feather feels and control better than plastic. However, to make conclusion about player skills and potential to kind of shuttle played is dangerously weak.
The only noticeable difference between plastic and feather that I have seen is that the plastic travels faster while the feather will travel slower at the end of its trajectory. I do not see any of the so called "weird trajectories". It goes up, and then it comes down. There may change tactics, but will not diminish skills. Footwork, swinging technique, drop shot technique, grip remains the same. Any difference would be tactical wise, which we can easily adopt. The things that peeves me the most is that I do not agree at all about the competitiveness and skills that is required in playing with a plastic. Plastic is no more and no less competitive then feather. Hi Taneepak. What are more points in space to hit the shuttle? Variations of flight trajectory meaning the diminishing speed of the feather compared with the quicker plastic? I have discussed that. I can slow down the bird with plastic. I can't name a deceptive shot that is not replicable in a plastic, and I have alot. I do reverse slice drops all the time. It is my favorite type of drop. It slices from right to left correct? Or is it left to right. I do that all the time. Great discussion I would greatly appreciate you guys reading my posts as I have done with yours. I have no idea what you guys are talking about when you guys talk about bad flight consistency. It flys the same every shot unless its broken. Feather would travel differently too. My bottom line is, of course plastic travels faster and loses speed much slower. But it does not drop or lower the skills involved such as footwork, swinging technique, drop shot technique, grips etc. They are all still very important and required.
u missed some of my earlier posts. because feather deterioate at much faster rate, like after every stroke, its flight path consistency drop almost after every shot. Plastic on the other hand, degrade much slower, so the shuttle flight path is more repeatable after each shot. It is also why pro change feather shuttle often, they dont trust the feather consistency, they need a new one almost every rally.
Thats great to hear! But its because I've read a lot of people saying it was the other way around. Plastic has less consistency and I'm like...what?
Cooler is just confusing rate of degrading (a feather shuttle doesn't degrade much, it either breaks or fly quite consistant) with rate of descendning (a plastic as you mention descends much less when it slows down, giving it a much flatter trajectory). The idea of degrading feather shuttle is something in that only existis in coolers mind.. A plastic degrades as it shirt gets torn.. A good feather retains its fight and precision very nicely until a feather partly or completely breaks (and then it is usually switched to a replacement with close to exactly the same speed and flight, and recycled for som extra life at drills/warmups) What people here refer to with consistency is the lack of rigidity of the plastic skirt of these shuttles. If a strong player smashes a mavis shuttle, the skirt will fold partly due to air-resistance and increase the speed unproportionally much, thus in effect giving it incosistent properties based on initial velocity. Perhaps you have not yet played any player with that strong smash yet? Have you ever played against a pro player? Also the manufacturing process of plastic shuttles, are based more on producing them as cheap as poosible (if price is not the issue, most people usually go with feather shuttles), so very little effort is put into testing them and making sure tolarances between individual shuttles and batches are kept to the minimum. Heck I even heard some plastic players here complained that there where completetly different speeds of Yellow Mavis 350s compared to White Mavis 350... So they decided only to play using white 350.. Because they found there where no way to change the speed of the yellow ones (by pressing/pushing the plastic skirt they could change it temporarily but even during a long rally it regained its original shape and became the "wrong speed").. /Twobeer
The nylon shuttle's skirt deforms faster and recovers to its original conical shape slower than a feather shuttle. The longer time that the nylon shuttle stays deformed during flight time the more unstable is its flight. That's not an appropriate comparison. The apple is overwhelmingly massive compared to the feather or seed. 2beer is confused with higher speed of plastic shuttle to inconsistency. I can't see how a less air resistance object is more inconsistent than a high air resistance object. I say it is closer to the opposite, slower falling objects usually have less predictable flight than a faster descending object. ex, apple falling on newton's head, very straight forward descent. When a feather or wind carrying seed fall, their downward flight path is very random and unpredictable.
http://www.trueflightfeathers.com/facts.htm dont let 2beer cloud your mind kazecloud. If u have a super high speed camera, u can capture picture of bits and pieces of glue and feathers coming off the feather shuttle after a smash, proof that feather shuttle degrade enough to affect flight after each shot. The top feather only degrade slower than lower grades but still degrade much faster than your typical mavis. If feather is so consistency and true, why do modern arrow and dart uses synthetic vanes? Do u know of any competition arrows and darts uses real feather vanes? Here's where high precision and consistency count, feather vanes don't make the cut here.
new scientist study showed that plastic skirt start to deform at velocity >= 23 m/s or 51 mph. When a plastic shuttle is coming at me at 75+ mph(after passing the net), judging its flight consistency is not my top priorty but rather concentrating on how to get out of the way or use my racket to redirect it. I might have 0.5 sec to react, any flight inconsistency at those speed is moot point. When the skirt collapsed, all i care it is coming at me fast, how it spin i dont care. Also at high velocity, the momentum of the plastic shuttle override those air drag forces acting on the collapsed shirt. Most badminton shots (descenting clear, drops, most drives) are under 51 mph. U guys are applying the high velocity scenario like it covers all types of badminton shots.
Well, the dudes here can smash hard enough that the nylon shuttle is still partially deformed when across the opponent's net. It's funny when to receive such a smash. The nylon shuttle zigzags or spirals or a combination.
And I quote from New Scientist, "High-speed photographs of shuttles striking a wall show that plastic skirts distort more than feather designs."
