Lin Dan ( 林丹 )

Discussion in 'China Professional Players' started by seawell, Oct 29, 2004.

  1. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Not a single statement I have written on this forum has been incorrect man. Dude, I was talking about his PRIME (Pre London 2012), when he was truly great (He is still hella great though). You just literally said the GOAT has so-so mental discipline and is a choker right now, like WTF, if there has ever been an incorrect statement there it is. Of course he lost 6-7 points in a row, but those periods mainly happen post London 2012 after his numerous long breaks. I actually think this shows how mentally disciplined he is, because even when he loses sets badly, or has these 5-7 point runs against him (Because his opponents can raise the pace better than him these days, not his mental issues, cause he doesn't have too many), he still pulls through and finds a way to win (Hunger, drive, mental strength, whatever you want to call it)

    I wouldn't blame the man for isolated incidents. Qiao Bin is one, another one I can think of is LCW in Malaysia Open 2006 where he blew a 13-20 lead in the third game. He learnt from these, came back better, and became great. He struck by himself and steeled himself for greater challenges. Everyone takes losses in life, it's the one that makes something of that loss and turns himself into something worthwhile that is really doing something. If LD isn't greatness personified, I don't know which badminton player is.

    You don't go from king to choker overnight man, players are simply in physically better shape than him, and he may have lost some of his real hunger to succeed (And that is a big maybe), but he is WAY mentally stronger

    A LOT of players have superior technical skills to LD, e.g.: Taufik, Gade, SK, VA, most of the Indian players actually, Lee Hyun Il,, I could go on and on, but LD, even in his depleted state is still better than them
     
    #10301 Anand S, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  2. Justin L

    Justin L Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    51,063
    Likes Received:
    3,938
    Location:
    Citizen of The World
    Lin Dan's technical skills is second to none.
     
    skhai91 and Nine Tailed Fox like this.
  3. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    @Nine Tailed Fox Since you seemed to want counters to your points, here they are for LD (all these points apply to his prime for sure, and some of these apply to the current LD as well)
    LD may not have penetration like Axelsen, but he sure has a wonderful stategic sense to score points. Whether you score it with a beautiful shot, or through 10 shots of sound setup, one point is still one point man.

    LD is faster than SK, and he is definitely more ruthless, even in his "(maybe) reduced hunger" version that he is right now (That man is a KILLER, he eats opponent's hearts for breakfast, lunch and dinner man, I've seen so many occasions where Srikanth went passive in pressure situations (Worlds this year for example)

    I agree, he never had the physicality of LCW, LD was physically stronger, but he was never as fast as LCW in terms of his quickness

    Defence of SWH, seriously, SWH is your example man? Maybe CL I could agree, but look at LD's defence even now, it's top 2/3 in the world STILL, and in his prime, it was only second to LCW (And that too by a VERY CLOSE margin), who may be the greatest defensive player of all time behind CL (HIs current defence is definitely better than SWH, look at the Worlds)

    Hunger of Chou Tien Chen? Chou, is that your example for hunger? Seriously man, LCW came from a hella poor family, could only play three times a week until he was 17, was a hell of a late bloomer (Wasn't really top class until he was 25) and fought so hard every single year to achieve his dreams. LD is the exact same as LCW. Chou has had the same weaknesses at the net for at least 4 years now, this isn't even a contest, LD is WAY hungrier, that is why he is the greatest (This is what defines all GREAT athletes, that extra hunger

    Humility of Ka Long? Who Gives a BLEEP about humility on the court, the only goal is to win. Muhammad Ali said it best, "Humble people, I've found, don't get very far."

    Height of Chen Long? Tall players have never historically been good at badminton man, the great players have all been between 5'7 and 5'11. CL and VA are exceptions, who became great because CL developed extra physical strength (Especially in his legs) and VA through his remarkable flexibility (Which gives him awesome agility and a top 3 defence in the world)
     
  4. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Really? I can name 5 players right now
    1. Taufik
    2. Gade
    3. Hendrawan
    4. Lee Hyun Il
    5. Viktor Axelsen
    There are EVEN more examples, I didn't mention Srikanth. Indian players have always had better technical skills than the Chinese, including LD, it is just that they lack on the physical side.

    In fact, LD hasn't even been the fittest badminton player. He is less fit than CL and LCW for sure, but only those two, he is still the third fittest of all time. His footwork is actually lacklustre for such a great player ( players from the past like Zhao Jianhua, Ardy Wiranata, Sun Jun, Peter Rasmussen (And there are probably guys I haven't named) had better footwork for sure, and CL and LCW definitely have better footwork.

    But this is what makes LD special, through awesome mental fortitude (Coming from his hunger to win), he overcomes any physical or technical deficiencies he has to his opponent and WINS, especially when it matters most. He is a ruthless killer on court, that is what makes him the GOAT, an inspiration for all of us, showing that unparalleled desire and hunger will take you far.

    Just because he is the GOAT doesn't mean he is the best at everything, but for sure, he is best at pretty much the only thing that truly matters on a badminton court, hunger to win (Win or nothing,Love for the game, that sort of intangible, "I will go through hell and high water to win", whatever you want to call it)
     
    #10304 Anand S, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  5. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    9,972
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    Location:
    New Delhi
    You don't win only because of your Mental Strength, Mr. Anand.

    LD sure had something technically which allowed him to dominate everyone.

    His footwork may seem lackadaisical but Some Classic Experts of Badminton are a huge fan of his footwork. So, you have a mountain of research work to go through before you can call his footwork bad in comparison with others.

    Physical and Technical Deficiencies? LOL. Atleast provide an example.
     
    #10305 Nine Tailed Fox, Nov 6, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  6. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    9,972
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    Location:
    New Delhi
    The comparison was about LD(Which shows up in SS) vs these players.

    You said LD could dominate the Badminton Calendar again in 2018 and I then proceeded to show you why he can't.

    You and Your points, OTOH are talking about LD (which shows up in Majors).
     
  7. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    You don't win from mental strength, said nobody who actually understands sports
    His footwork is not as good as some of the players I mentioned, it's just fact, still hella awesome footwork, but he isn't as fast as those dudes for sure

    Physical deficiencies, sure, he isn't as physically fit as LCW, CL. Over everyone else he holds a clear physical edge.

    Technical definciencies, there arent any deficiencies per se, he has an extremely fundamentally sound game, but there a BUNCH of players who have better technical skills than him (Refer to earlier posts for example

    I can remember LD at the march of his autobiography talking about how he was called "First Round Lin" when he was young, because he always lost first round in every tournament he entered. Nowadays, we are shocked and frustrated as "BLEEP" when he is booted in the first round. He overcame these losses through unparalleled hunger, and made himself into the GOAT. That is why he is an inspiration to all of us now, because he took his losses as fuel to succeed.

    Listen @Nine Tailed Fox , I really don't like you talking down to me like that, I have never talked down to you, in that way, but I just want to say, you should really research some of this stuff before you say it
     
  8. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Was not LD dominating the calendar in his prime, he was winning many titles before LCW"s prime and about the same as LCW (Slightly less titles during that time, because he started playing less) from 2008-2012. LD and LCW will have a Federer-Nadal-esque resurgence, I can feel it. Form is temporary, class is permanent
     
  9. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Besides, what is the definition of dominating the calendar, I will put it at around 5-6 titles. throughout the year I can definitely see a player of LD's class or LCW doing that, we have seen these guys do it, and like I said, a resurgence is coming. Even as recent as 2016, LD won three titles leading up to the Olympics, and if LD continued playing after Rio in 2016, I am sure he would have added 2 more at least. Dominating the calendar doesn't matter to him anymore as winning the majors does, it is the same for any great player, including LCW (LCW is just so awesome he wins the calendar anyway, he has just been unfortunate in those events)
     
  10. lippro

    lippro Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    152
    Location:
    singapore
    Anand S had me until he started naming players with better technical skills than LD.
     
    samkool and Nine Tailed Fox like this.
  11. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    9,972
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    Location:
    New Delhi
    I am not talking you down.

    I simply understand that you speak matters that are in Grey in plain black and white terms.

    Prime Lin Dan had a better net play, clear, lifts, deception, counter-attack, And most importantly the Best Smash in the game. So, how he is technically Inferior to the aforementioned players.

    Which technique doesn't impress you?
     
  12. lippro

    lippro Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    152
    Location:
    singapore
    In before Jackie has a chance to join this discussion: his DRIVES.
     
    samkool likes this.
  13. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    9,972
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    Location:
    New Delhi
    Some of his overhead smashes could teach Pythagoras a thing or two about angles.
     
    skhai91 likes this.
  14. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    I speak matters as they are, not in black and white, I haven't had any bias in anything I have said, it has all been well researched. All his techniques impress me, he is so fundamentally sound, it's AWESOME. In LD's prime era, Gade, Taufik, LCW, CL were all as good or better at these things that you mentioned, and just to note, LD didn't have the best smash in the game, Taufik had a better smash than LD (At that level, the differences are so miniscule, it is the mind that makes the difference, that extra little drive which comes from champion's pride
     
  15. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    this isn't doubles to care about drives, and if you really want to talk about drives, Taufik was the master of flat play in singles
     
  16. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    But he never was Axelsen
     
  17. lippro

    lippro Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    152
    Location:
    singapore
    That was a joke about a poster on this forum if you didn't notice.
     
  18. Anand S

    Anand S Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Look at LD's winners, even in his prime, almost all of them were off of shot length from the opponent, in that time, Taufik was the only player who could consistently score smashes off the backline, LD earned his points through sound strategic aggression, it is AWESOME
     
  19. Nine Tailed Fox

    Nine Tailed Fox Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2015
    Messages:
    9,972
    Likes Received:
    2,345
    Location:
    New Delhi
    Dominating the Calendar means

    1)Must winning All England and Worlds/Olympics

    2)Atleast 4 or 5 SS

    Undefeated in Thomas/ Sudirman Cup.

    Aka. Lin Dan 2006-09
     
  20. lippro

    lippro Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2013
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    152
    Location:
    singapore
    Taufik had phenomenal smashing power back in his prime that's for sure. I would agree he was better than LD in that regard.
     
    Anand S likes this.

Share This Page