How to be the GOAT without the best technical skills is beyond me. And if not for his consummate technique, he won't be able to prolong his career until now as his ages with waning physicality, fitness and stamina. Just ask the five you mentioned above if they agree with you. Funny that we are talking about skills and you suddenly switched to fitness, then mental fortitude (or mental toughness, to be specific) for which he's also second to none. As for unparalleled desire and hunger to win, I'm pretty sure dozens of players have it, even the also-rans, upstarts, practically any aspirants. But so what, isn't it expected of any professional player? Peter Gade , Xiong Guobao and company don't call Lin Dan The Greatest Ever if they have no idea what they are talking about. Sorry, I beg your pardon - "Indian players have always had better technical skills than the Chinese, including LD, it is just that they lack on the physical side"? Where are or were all these Indian players the past few years or decades when CHN players are/were reigning ? I'm afraid your personal bias, reckless opinions and wishful thinking are so far-fetched that I actually feel there's simply no need for me to rebut you. Need I remind everyone that those wannabes, VA, KS and a couple others, can only really begin to make their presence felt and thrust themselves in front presumptuously when the two legendary maestros, LD and LCW, are well in their twilight years, and even Chen Long has temporarily lost his mojo. I must say, it's still early to say who among the upstarts will be the greatest beneficiary in the years to come. When Chen Long was dominant in 2015 winning the WC and seven PSS/SS titles and voted BWF Male Player of the Year, that when LCW was still very much the player to beat, yet almost nobody put him on a pedestal like what some die-hard nationalistic fans are doing to KS and VA; not only that, Chen Long then never so much as murmur something to the effect that the days of LD and LCW are over. We can put it down to Chen Long being modest as well as realistic, very sensible of him. That's why though some people pointed out that Chen Long's trajectory these few years mirrors Carolina Marin's, I have to draw the distinction that Chen Long's achievements are far more impressive as he had to deal with LCW and LD, the latter to a lesser extent, who at that time were still largely formidable enough as to prevent the rest from clinching anything significant other than the odd PSS/SS titles. It appears to me most people are carried away focusing on the rise of V Axelsen, K Srikanth and the return of K Momota as if Chen Long is a has-been, how wrong they will be when The Dragon Returns to reclaim his throne and put those aforementioned upstarts in their place for quite a while longer. Let's wait and see.
@Justin L How to be the GOAT without superior technical skills? Simple, Killer will. I never said LD had a scrub's technical skills, he is extremely fundamentally sound, at that level man, the differences are so small, it is the mind that makes the differences. No one has had the hunger to win like LD, if you want an example, look at LD when he saved that last match point in Rio 2016 against LCW, that was an example of it, refusing to let that point go for anything. Everyone else fights hard, but LD expects to win, so he fights harder than anybody else, it is champion's pride over "underdog mentality", it is what has separated all great athletes. Where are these Indian players now? They arent there, despite having such talent and skills. Why? Because they don't have LD's drive. None of this is personal bias, reckless thinking or any of the crap you accuse me of, it's all well thought out and researched. Chen Long is much the same, many players with better technical skills, but he has that same champion's pride, that thing LD has, it is why he is a double world and olympic champion. I agree, Chen Long can have a huge resurgence. A lot of players have skills, but very few players are ruthless killers like LD and CL, every single player you can name, I will guarantee you is an all-time great player, try it with any sport, you will find the same thing. I have never put KS and VA in the class of LD, CL and LCW, but they are definitely on better form right now, but form will always change, but the class of the real greats (The big three for example) is permanent ONCE AGAIN: Form is temporary, class is permanent
In terms of your comment about Carolina @Justin L I wholeheartedly agree, CL definitely had to fight much tougher opposition on his way to being the second GOAT after LD
Talking about hunger to win, who can hold a candle to LCW - it's been donkey's years he is still chasing that elusive gold.
now your age is showing... you have no credibility with me until you can explain how and why player 'x' is better at skill factor 'y' than lin dan. name dropping doesn't mean squat. head-to-head win/loss record means even less. if you disagree with that it's game over.
Well, LCW is in that same class of truly great players, just like LD right? Hasn't he been better than everyone else as well. It's just really sad he doesn't have that major title, I wish he gets it in the few precious years he has
Srikanth, name me one player who has deceptions and kills like that, certainly not LD. Ive seen players like Prannoy and Sai pull off some incredible deceptions and stuff at the net that I have never seen LD do (He has done trick shots, either when he is hella behind or super ahead, but Prannoy and Sai did these in real pressure situations against top players {Look at Prannoy in Indonesia} Taufik, most agree he had the best net touch of any mens singles player (I think so), definitely best drives and body play (Including best body defence), Gade was well known for his sheer variation overhead, as well as his net touch and deceptions, it is what made him famous. These guys were definitely better than LD at the things I just mentioned, which is what I mean when I mean technical skills I could go on and on about this, but I would encourage you to watch these guys and see, they have more variations and are better at a lot of things than LD, but once again, LD's mental strength and refusal to lose makes him the GOAT
If you want me to shown my age, Zhao Jianhua was LD before LD, pretty much as good or better than him at a lot of things (The dude was hella fast, hell of a smash, awesome deceptions at the net, actually more than LD when it comes to kills there, awesome defence too, he was way ahead of his time {His problem was that he was patchy and inconsistent owing to a stamina problem he got after suffering from pneumonia when he was 20}), Morten Frost had a better footwork technique (Best of all time), Lime Swie King had a better smash, Ardy Wiranata had a similar "Never-say die" attitude, and he also had hella insane defensive footwork, I would encourage you to watch videos of some of these players @samkool , they were as good or better than LD at the things I mentioned they were great at (Mostly better to be quite honest). Maybe you will learn something from them.
Five to eight years ago, he's too young to know, let alone watch or understand how Lin Dan and Lee CW played. I strongly feel he has a lot of catching up to do watching those epic battles before he presumably starts making any meaningful comparisons or draw any reasonable conclusions with any player today. That's the least he could do, any good student will do that first. Otherwise, I agree with you he has no credibility making those wild, unfounded claims out of thin air.
For the life of me, I simply fail to understand how Lin Dan can be regarded as The GOAT by the likes of Peter Gade, Xiong Guobao and other greats when he is not the best in many of those aspects except ..err..hunger to win, killer instinct, mental strength, and suchlike. It's beyond belief.
actually you can't. you continue to name drop. sri does this, taufik does that, gade can do this, blah blah blah. you have yet to explain how and why they can do it. you haven't even shown you understand what i am talking about. bwahahaha, good one. damn, you are hilarious! i guarantee what i see and what you see are, well, like black and white. you - wow, look what he did! me - impressive shot/rally. here's what lead up to it, why he did it, what he had to do leading up to it and the mechanics required (how) to do it. explain the mechanics required of srikanth to play like srikanth. explain the mechanics required of lcw to play like lcw. until you can display any technical knowledge/understanding of what it takes to 'play' badminton how can you evaluate which player is technically better?
allow me to throw a little something out there for you to consider... the game was a lot slower and less physical in their time. would they be able to do what they did then, now? you cannot definitively say yes.
I find it hilarious that Taufik , the Then World Number 1, full of aura and physicality , in Asian Championships fought against a 17 year old Lin Dan without any worthy technical skill at that time. And lost 2-15 3-15. Surely something in a 17.Y.O Lin Dan's technical arsenal had bothered Taufik.
They arent wild unfounded claims, and I have watched way more badminton than any of you guys, Taufik was a hell of a skill player, he was more skilled than LD, it's fact
LD is one of the if not the most deceptive players of all time overhead. Srikanth has good attacking play, but compared to LD in his prime even that is not impressive. The huge thing about LD back then, in my opinion, was that he had insane court coverage and shot quality on top of his attack, which was probably the best in the game. It was nigh unbelievable in the 2011 WC, 2012 OG and 2010 Thomas Cup, for example (watch his matches vs LCW in those if you can - theyre absolute classics). He has a slightly different grip than most other players, which makes him look a bit different, almost awkward at first, but his late forehand is probably the best I've ever seen as a result. I think the 2011 WC Final or SF contains some commentary on his deception as well.
I don‘t think there are a lot of guys who watched more matches than Justin_L. I even think I watched more matches than you did.
