LD wins..........

[nibaxiang]

Your solution seems almost like if we are unhappy with the linecalls in China Open, we should ensure lincalls are also unfair in Malasyain Open??? Fighting bad with bad is never a good idea...or what is the saying.. Two wrongs don't make a right?

Personally I think personal pride and inter team competetion makes Danes, Indos, Malaysians etc try to beat eachother when faced in the tournaments...

We should be happy other coaches than LYB seems to think it is an important aspect for wins to be on the court, not off the court!!

It would not be accepted by eruopean players to w/o to help their "team"-mates.. simply beacuse MS is not seen here as a "team" event! Kenneth will ALWAYS try to beat Gade if faced, for example...

/Twobeer

Well, good point. I have to say. But instead of asking everybody to agree with the value and culture you value the most, should BWF make the ONLY set of rules & regulations to let people follow? Samething applies to our daily life. We have laws to govern things, other than ethic or moral standards.

 

[cooler]

Well, good point. I have to say. But instead of asking everybody to agree with the value and culture you value the most, should BWF make the ONLY set of rules & regulations to let people follow? Samething applies to our daily life. We have laws to govern things, other than ethic or moral standards.

from my limited memory, i think ibf first used ranking to seed the players in drawing out each tournament. Then some countries complained that china is fixing certain matches so ibf then tweak the draw by separating chinese players if the seeding method ends up having too many chinese players on one side of the ladder. Afterward, new complaints come in saying they can't get ahead because ibf was tweaking the draw and their players have to compete with chinese players too early and can't reach the QF/SF. Then bwf gone back to making the draws base purely on ranking. Guess what, we now have the some old complaints, match fixing.

i bet bwf will toss vching's petition into the garbage bin. Same old same old.

 

[Birdwood]

Of course it doesn't work for Taufik. Arguably Taufik is less fit than you so how can we use LD/LCW's standards on him.

I don't know why TH is less fit? And why we should exclude him from the comparisons? Earlier we have xuguochuan's argument about "LD got enough rest", now we have more excuse for TH's condition. I thought he had plenty or even more rest than LCW and LD. But LD won handsomely against him.

Try to be fair here, if you want to compare, try to put everything on the table, apple to apple, one category a time. We don't want shifting sand or targets or apply different standards in our discussions or do we .

 

[ye333]

Everyone knows TH is not fit, just like everyone knows Mia Audina is ... er... not thin. As to the reason, how about "TH does little training"?

Anyway, I am just trying to be funny. Yes even TH (!) does better when he has more rest, and that's why he skipped China Open, since he knew he would have no chance to beat BCL without enough rest. As to the reason why TH lost to LD (actually it's arguable whether TH had more rest than LD since LD got knocked out in the 1st round in China Open and TH competed in the national championship), may I mention currently LD is simply better than TH?

I don't know why TH is less fit? And why we should exclude him from the comparisons? Earlier we have xuguochuan's argument about "LD got enough rest", now we have more excuse for TH's condition. I thought he had plenty or even more rest than LCW and LD. But LD won handsomely against him.

Try to be fair here, if you want to compare, try to put everything on the table, apple to apple, one category a time. We don't want shifting sand or targets or apply different standards in our discussions or do we .

 

[Birdwood]

Since when does requiring "fair game" become "whining"?

And about your "other teams just don't have the chance" theory, there is one counter-example in this very HKO. Why did the IND XDs indeed play a 3-set semi-final? And don't forget that among the four players, three of them are not young (Limpele, Nova, Vita). Why didn't Flandy/Vita just WO or lost quickly to help Nova/Lilyana save energy?

Here is the question I asked Bananakid: If one works hard and becomes better than others, does it mean one has the right to cheat?

My answer is an absolute "NO". Maybe you have a different answer.

Try to be more specific about players cheating. If they do, they will be ejected from the matches immediately. If you have problems with linesmen, umpires, coaches, etc., please bring the complaints to badminton officials and organizers. Don't put the blames for walkout or walkover on players. They belong to organizations. Maybe they were told to do so, but that's not cheating on players' part. Everyone could have injuries, excuses, unhappiness with line calls, etc. for not playing. That's within their rights to do so for whatever reasons. And how hard they play is also up to them. You can't say Chinese players finished their internal competitions quickly or gave walkout and walkover to teammates are cheating . They are boring and maybe not very professional, but certainly not cheating. Please make the distinction in the definitions. No matter how we are unhappy to see those things happening, it's no way any close to cheating as we all know it in legal term and in the world of sports, including badminton, unless you are referring amateue sports .

 

[ye333]

So you think none of the WOs is cheating...

It's impossible to "be more specific", otherwise there will be some criteria to check such cheating (yes I still think most of the WOs are cheating). I think not a single sport has a good way to check "cheating".

Try to be more specific about players cheating. If they do, they will be ejected from the matches immediately. If you have problems with linesmen, umpires, coaches, etc., please bring the complaints to badminton officials and organizers. Don't put the blames for walkout or walkover on players. They belong to organizations. Maybe they were told to do so, but that's not cheating on players' part. Everyone could have injuries, excuses, unhappiness with line calls, etc. for not playing. That's within their rights to do so for whatever reasons. And how hard they play is also up to them. You can't say Chinese players finished their internal competitions quickly or gave walkout and walkover to teammates are cheating . They are boring and maybe not very professional, but certainly not cheating. Please make the distinction in the definitions. No matter how we are unhappy to see those things happening, it's no way any close to cheating as we all know it in legal term and in the world of sports, including badminton, unless you are referring amateue sports .

 

[lipans]

I am aggree that LCW lil impation this time. Usually, in his new game strategy he does not use smash very much , but he did much of it. It cause him his energy as LD defence is so solid to return back his shot.

He should use his usual game play with many drop and tricky shots. Just when the opponent get offguard, use the deadly smash to kill the shuttle.

 

[eaglehelang]

Today's local newspaper have them talking about the dubious line calls, LCW looking tired in 2nd & 3rd game.

NST : http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Monday/Sport/2099520/Article/index_html
"Chong Wei didn't show any signs of an injured right knee as he came out firing on all cylinders to take the first game 21-9 in a ferocious manner.

Lin Dan looked lethargic but Chong Wei's attacking game was so solid the former never had no chance.

However, Lin Dan's resilience and class showed as he put Chong Wei under tremendous pressure in the second game....

"Quite a lot of his (Lin Dan's) shots were outside. Everybody could see it," complained Chong Wei after the match.

"This also happened in the China Open final. Maybe playing in Hong Kong is the same as in China."

Chong Wei may have a point regarding poor umpiring and equally bad line calls but the Malaysian must get used to all that quickly as it could happen again in next year's Beijing Olympics. "




The Star :http://www.thestar.com.my/sports/story.asp?file=/2007/12/3/sports/19645760&sec=sports


“Quite a lot of his shots were outside. Everybody could see it,” said Chong Wei, who lost last week's China Open final to Bao Chunlai.
“This also happened in the China Open final. Maybe playing in Hong Kong is the same as in China.” His claims marred an absorbing final between badminton's top two ranked players, although Chong Wei was also hampered by a knee injury he sustained in October...."

 

[FU4EVA]

So you think none of the WOs is cheating...

It's impossible to "be more specific", otherwise there will be some criteria to check such cheating (yes I still think most of the WOs are cheating). I think not a single sport has a good way to check "cheating".

It is better to regard it as a strategy... saying cheating is far too much...

 

[Birdwood]

So you think none of the WOs is cheating...

It's impossible to "be more specific", otherwise there will be some criteria to check such cheating (yes I still think most of the WOs are cheating). I think not a single sport has a good way to check "cheating".

Sure back up your claims by showing the facts. Have the international badminton officials investigate your cheating claims and take away the medals. Otherwise your accusations are useless and groundless, and inflammatory at the best.

As much as I'd like to see LCW and TH winning, I hate to see you making personal attacks on players unless you can show the proof. We own players whether Mas, Ina, Chn, etc. respect at the minimum. Without them, we wouldn't be here discussing the SS tournaments.

Try to look positively to the future. Rules are rules. You want rules to be changed, start another thread or a movement. Don't need to be sour grapes.

 

[indra]

The 'number one' reason why LD won:-
1) LD got enough rest
1) china new 'walkover strategy' works great (in both china and hong kong open)

AGree....100%

Looking at the way LCW played...I guess LCW adopted TH's style...very economic and efficient...His smash has been superb...

Yes...LD beat LCW because of the above two main reasons...

 

[coolhandluke]

National chief coach Yap Kim Hock said in a telephone interview that he was satisfied despite Chong Wei's loss.

“Chong Wei controlled the first game but in the second game he looked tired, as he had been playing too many tournaments.

“His recurring knee problem also affected his game. Lin Dan looked the more fresher player.

“Chong Wei will take a one-week break before resuming training,” added Kim Hock.

This is pretty much what I gathered from viewing the match too. LCW was showing signs of fatigue as early as the second game and by the third game he was making uncharacteristic unforced errors and falling back to trying tricky shots.

I hope LCW takes a break long enough to heal up his knee. As such, reaching the finals of three consecutive super series and winning one in dominant fashion is a remarkable achievement in itself. He did his best and that's all one can ask for.

Btw, I thought the officiating was pretty good in HK Open unlike the infamous China Open. Outside of one egregious blown call, there weren't many bad calls. LCW lost to a player who was in a better shape on this day.

 

[ye333]

First, it's impossible for a fan to obtain such evidence. Does that mean fans should refrain from making judgments? I say no. You can disagree. In fact fans of other sports are doing such things all the time. Imagine a soccer match, in which the players are dubiously lethargic. Do you think the spectators should refrain from shouting "fake! cheating!"? I say no. You can disagree.

Yes we owe the players for those enjoyable matches. But don't forget they also owe us for their oppotunity to make a living as badminton players. Without fans there will be no need to hold any tournaments.

Sure back up your claims by showing the facts. Have the international badminton officials investigate your cheating claims and take away the medals. Otherwise your accusations are useless and groundless, and inflammatory at the best.

As much as I'd like to see LCW and TH winning, I hate to see you making personal attacks on players unless you can show the proof. We own players whether Mas, Ina, Chn, etc. respect at the minimum. Without them, we wouldn't be here discussing the SS tournaments.

Try to look positively to the future. Rules are rules. You want rules to be changed, start another thread or a movement. Don't need to be sour grapes.

 

[sonnymak]

LD played well. To beat LCW, I have said before you must be patient. LD was Patient in the 2nd and 3rd and tried not to go for fantastic shots. He only attack when he was ready and not all the time. LD also was quick to come to the net. LCW lost on 2 grounds, one: more unforced errors than LD esp at 5-5 in the 3rd that gave LD a 5 point lead.

From then on LD just maintained his game whilst LCW cut back on his errors and were able to slowly closing in. One last tactical error, the flick serve by LCW gave LD point 20. But even if he did not use that the score would be around 21-18 LD favour the errors at 5-5 was the turning point.

I dont agree LCW 's defence was not good. In fact there were so many instances when he return LD smashes and twice sucessfully countered attack to the oos and ahs of the crowd.

LCW and BCL are highly skillful players who can make the suttle do a lot of things . LCW and BCL are equal in their resective strength and weaknesses. LD isnt as skillful as the LCW and BCL but he is quicker, the body obey his mind faster and he can also think very fast in Court and has power punches often executed at right moments. LD has very few unforced errors in his game. that what separate LD from LCW and BCL.

After 2008, I predict LD will drop off the radar as his attacking game will lose some sting whilist BCL and LCW will be on top for another 2 years before the next Chinese hard smasher comes to the fore.

 

[X Ball]

LD played well. To beat LCW, I have said before you must be patient. LD was Patient in the 2nd and 3rd and tried not to go for fantastic shots. He only attack when he was ready and not all the time. LD also was quick to come to the net. LCW lost on 2 grounds, one: more unforced errors than LD esp at 5-5 in the 3rd that gave LD a 5 point lead.

From then on LD just maintained his game whilst LCW cut back on his errors and were able to slowly closing in. One last tactical error, the flick serve by LCW gave LD point 20. But even if he did not use that the score would be around 21-18 LD favour the errors at 5-5 was the turning point.

I dont agree LCW 's defence was not good. In fact there were so many instances when he return LD smashes and twice sucessfully countered attack to the oos and ahs of the crowd.

LCW and BCL are highly skillful players who can make the suttle do a lot of things . LCW and BCL are equal in their resective strength and weaknesses. LD isnt as skillful as the LCW and BCL but he is quicker, the body obey his mind faster and he can also think very fast in Court and has power punches often executed at right moments. LD has very few unforced errors in his game. that what separate LD from LCW and BCL.

After 2008, I predict LD will drop off the radar as his attacking game will lose some sting whilist BCL and LCW will be on top for another 2 years before the next Chinese hard smasher comes to the fore.

I think it is beginning to look like LCW and BAO are the two up-and-coming players. Then there is CJ, Sony and perhaps even Simon. It will be an interesting 2008 as much as it was this year. LD's job is made harder now.

 

[Birdwood]

First, it's impossible for a fan to obtain such evidence. Does that mean fans should refrain from making judgments? I say no. You can disagree. In fact fans of other sports are doing such things all the time. Imagine a soccer match, in which the players are dubiously lethargic. Do you think the spectators should refrain from shouting "fake! cheating!"? I say no. You can disagree.

Yes we owe the players for those enjoyable matches. But don't forget they also owe us for their oppotunity to make a living as badminton players. Without fans there will be no need to hold any tournaments.

First you are not shouting in a stadium. You're making accusation in writing for everyone to see on internet. Second, if you're serious about the sports, you would refrain from such inflammatory comments, especially lacking of any concrete evidence. It's not good for the sports and anyone else. As I said before, if you have problems with the rules and coaches, or whoever you're not happy with, please seek appropriate channels for action. Not to broadcast some unfound personal opinion as truth, and try to drag the sports we all love down with you. Fans support badminton, not trying to destroy it. Please seek positive improvement to the sports, that's where the future will be .

 

[Loh]

well, it is easy to find a scapegoat or excuse than to accept one's own weakness or fault. If the alleged walkout/walkover tactic employed by lyb is yielding titles for the china team, my question is, why don't other teams do it too? Don't tell me other countries are all sweet rose smelling and ethical unlike lyb. For example, MAL has 3 main MS players(lcw, HH, roslin), so is china (LD, bcl, cj) Instead of whining about LD being too fit, why not copy china and have HH and roslin PLAY GOOD enough to reach the QF or SF and tire out the chineses so lcw stands a better chance in the final? INA can employ soni and santoso to help out taufik too. My simple solution to MAL and INA MS problem is to have HH, roslin, soni, simon to get into QF and/or SF so china can't use walkover or walkout tactics. Funny how the european (PG and KJ fans) fans here don't whine about it like MAL and INA fans because they know it's fair game.

You certainly have a point there!

 

[shanisen3200]

well, it is easy to find a scapegoat or excuse than to accept one's own weakness or fault. If the alleged walkout/walkover tactic employed by lyb is yielding titles for the china team, my question is, why don't other teams do it too? Don't tell me other countries are all sweet rose smelling and ethical unlike lyb. For example, MAL has 3 main MS players(lcw, HH, roslin), so is china (LD, bcl, cj) Instead of whining about LD being too fit, why not copy china and have HH and roslin PLAY GOOD enough to reach the QF or SF and tire out the chineses so lcw stands a better chance in the final? INA can employ soni and santoso to help out taufik too. My simple solution to MAL and INA MS problem is to have HH, roslin, soni, simon to get into QF and/or SF so china can't use walkover or walkout tactics. Funny how the european (PG and KJ fans) fans here don't whine about it like MAL and INA fans because they know it's fair game.

Yeah that's the way of badminton...ahhh perfect likes the sakura drop

 

[ye333]

Internet is not a serious place man. This is a forum, I don't see it much different than the stadium or some small gathering of fans. I am expressing my personal views and judgments, and I am not saying that's truth. You are free to disagree, and if you have counter-evidence, I will believe you.

Who is dragging the sports down? The dissatisfied fans, or those ppl who manipulated matches?

First you are not shouting in a stadium. You're making accusation in writing for everyone to see on internet. Second, if you're serious about the sports, you would refrain from such inflammatory comments, especially lacking of any concrete evidence. It's not good for the sports and anyone else. As I said before, if you have problems with the rules and coaches, or whoever you're not happy with, please seek appropriate channels for action. Not to broadcast some unfound personal opinion as truth, and try to drag the sports we all love down with you. Fans support badminton, not trying to destroy it. Please seek positive improvement to the sports, that's where the future will be .

 

[Misty100]

Let's all look forward to 2008. I bet there'll be several new challengers like CJ, SDK, and SS making leaps and giving hell to those present stayers.

Time for players and forummers alike to take a break from badminton. A relaxing holiday would be really nice after a long year, with tournaments after tournaments.