Insensible postings.

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by kwun, Apr 22, 2003.

  1. swijaya0101

    swijaya0101 Regular Member

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    most of the topic in the other forums are repeated. If you limit this, I dont think you could find new posts everyday.
     
  2. Pre-emptive

    Pre-emptive Regular Member

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    Aren't the regulars trying to encourage new users to do the search first? I see no reasons to waste the storage space for repeating topics.

    Quote:
    Announcement: Search archives before you start a new thread
    kwun (Administrator) - - 10-27-2002
     
  3. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    "New post" should have its meaning. Post are created to share information. If some old stuff just being up again and again, I consider it's nothing creative and just a waste. In this case, I would rather don't see it. Which one u prefer? Old junks all over the place? Or, less posts, but almost everyone is very useful and informative???

    We are not talking about u have to search every thread, say, u r repeating something ppl talked about 2 yrs ago. Ok, I agree such thing is extremly hard to find or even think about. It's very possible, u saw some "rare" things, and thought nobody ever experienced before, and willing to share. In case u "repeat" this kinda thread, I don't think that's your fault.

    However, we are talking about some obvious repeating issues. How many times u just see a new thread say, "what's teh best tension?", "what's the best racket?", "Is more tension gives more control/power?" I am not saying we have to squeeze all related topics must be in 1 thread, but there are a lot of cases, we have similar threads been post just one next to another, or just 1 or 2 days apart. I believe if ppl can do a search, or even drag down to the bottom of the page, they can surely find their answers right away.

    I know it is very hard to "draw the line". Myself sometimes also feel frustrated to look for some stuff. However, if u tried, and can't find the thing u need easily, feel free to post. Always, TRY SEARCH before just START a new one...
     
    #23 LazyBuddy, Apr 23, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2003
  4. timeless

    timeless Regular Member

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    I understand where you're coming from but the post count is not an accurate measure of how long a member has been on the forum. For that it is best to check their profile and the take note of the date they registered on the forum. The post count is more of a measure of how "active" members are. And even then, a low post count isn't necessarily a sign that a member doesn't regularly visit the forum. Some people just have less to say ;).
     
  5. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    guys,

    i will try to response to everybody, but i don't guarantee.

    in general i agree with LazyBuddy and timeless's views.

    i believe the quality of the top quality posts are the same as month/years before. however, there are also much higher noise ratio. the noises are things that looks more like chit-chatting, non-sense and yelling posts, or "casual conversations" as cooler put it, asking repeated questions, or joking around (mind you, occasional jokes are ok, but not a thread of it, especially when it hijaaked the thread's original intent). many of these are better suited to a chat-room, and imho, it has little place in a discussion forum.

    BRL, in a rage, i deleted two threads in the marketplace last night coz the posters were mindlessly chatting and making non-sensible comments. the comments are so stupid and juvenile even some of the participants stated that the thread has become so stupid someone should lock it. now i regretted doing that.

    as LB said, it is very hard to define a line or rules between "good" and "bad". and if there are any such definition, someone will be bound to exploit loopholes in it and sooner or later, we will find the set of rules to be as thick as a dictionary. i hope to leave that to the poster's judgement and this thread as a reminder.

    badrad's idea of a guideline + active moderation instead of a set of rules is a good idea. i do feel that the current set of guidelines is a bit too loose. we should work to refine that.

    Pre-emptive, yes, there are measures that we have discussed and having a "trashbin" forum was one of them, we believe that is harsh a measure though but we will keep that in mind.

    the other measure is to take out post counts. we agree that post count can be seen as a measure of trustfulness. that can be true in many sense, but not totally so. there are many who posts many 'casual conversation' posts while there are also many who post a few posts with lots of knowledge, thoughts and insights behind it.

    either way, if we do turn off the post count, it will only affect the thread view, Tammy, you can still click on the user's profile and find out the post count from there.

    i hope everybody don't feel that we are trying to curb any "lightness" in the forum. on appropriate occasions, it is actually desirable to have joke here and there. 100% seriousness make a place dull. however, we believe that we are dangerously leaning toward the light side and we are seeking to strike a balance here.
     
  6. timeless

    timeless Regular Member

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    After giving this thread more thought, I retract my original vote to turn off the post counts. Punishing the majority for the wrongs of a few is not right.

    However, my concern is similar to what txyu said earlier about the post count, it gives me an impression of how much badminton knowledge any particular member has.

    ie: High Post Count = Large amount of knowledge

    It has been my mistake to assume such an impression but as a relatively new (in terms of time) member to the forum, and even badminton itself, I had little else to go on. A large part of my concern is that other new members or those who are new to the sport might also make the same assumption. As much valued knowledge I have gained since joining here, I've probably spent as much or more time reading fiction rather than fact. As someone who is in the process of learning as much as they can about badminton, having to differentiate between fact and fiction is a frustrating chore at best. I think this is partially what Kwun is trying to avoid. From the perspective of an administrator or moderator, negative experiences only degrade the quality of the forum.

    This is third badminton forum I've experienced. The first was very active but the members did nothing but squabble amongst themselves over what they believed was right. I couldn't learn anything because no one made enough sense to be correct, nor had the maturity to admit when they were wrong. They were all adults behaving like children. The second forum was also fairly active but all the active members turned out to be teenagers and kids using it as a social chatroom. Needless to say, I learned nothing there as well. This forum is simply the best. Since joining, I've learned a lot, and have even met a lot of wonderful and knowledgeable people (in person). Lets help Kwun keep this forum from turning into those others I've seen.

    Kwun, you've indentified a problem, so similar to what badrad asked, it would be helpful if you took the lead on how you want it handled and perhaps some strict ground rules. A lot of debate here seems to stem from what is acceptable for one person may not be so for others. We eagerly await a resolution.

    Note: Oops I ended up writing this (probably while Kwun was posting). I also got interrupted and so I didn't get to finish this nor read his post until after I submitted mine now.I'll leave it anyway because it still makes sense(?).
     
    #26 timeless, Apr 23, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2003
  7. Bunni

    Bunni Regular Member

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    being a new member of this forum, i definately read a lot more threads than posting any (as you can see from my post count). i don't really know the different levels of seriousness of this forum in the past or present, but from the way i see it, i think there still should be a sufficient amount of "lightness" just to keep most people happy.

    kwun's right in saying how 100% seriousness makes the forum dull. also, before i joined as a member, i read many of the threads and wondered "if i become a new member, would i have to conform to everyone's serious tone?" to be honest, this thought kinda made me feel "iffy" to join. new members probably are a bit worried whether or not other members will accept them or not. i don't know if any of you have ever experienced it with other forums, but i find that the first overall impression of a forum will sometimes determine whether someone should join or not (ie. if they think they're gunna feel comfortable posting, then they might consider joining). i think i sound like i'm rambling here... :confused:

    i'm not saying that 100% "lightness" in a forum is the way to go. i just think that it'll probably bring a more comfortable atmosphere that everyone will enjoy.:)
     
  8. tonten

    tonten Regular Member

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    I hardly come here as often as I used to, as I have also found alot of things I am reading are repetitive. (I still check out once a week to see if there's an interest thread that catches my eye).

    Age difference may be a factor in some of the posts here. I find that younger people or teenagers tend to post on forums with few support for their opinions or arguments.

    You can't blame some of them, because over the years I have come to learn that many of them have not developed the comprehension or language structure to write in that kind of way. I don't think it would be fair to force everyone to write an essay everytime they posted something.
     
  9. Winex West Can

    Winex West Can Regular Member

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    Hahaha...that was probably me dropping by with the demo racquets, eh? :D

    Anyhow, the frustration is there about the uselessness of some postings as some of you could tell from some of my recent responses. In the past, I have just set up an Ignore List but I am finding that this list is growing which is an indicator to me. I even had, in the past, one poster accusing me of reporting them to the moderators and demanding to know why I had done so!

    This forum has been very, very good in ensuring that the irrevelant postings/threads are removed unlike some of the infamous ones like worldbadminton. I know that there are guidelines and rules posted and it would be nice if the newer posters take sometime to read and also observe the postings over an initial period to get a feel of the type of postings "accepted". Everyone is human and allowed to make mistakes from time to time. One of the great features of this forum is the "community" feel eventhough all of us are geographically and culturally separated.

    Some recent replies to postings included "Buy the MP88" without any reasoning on why the poster feel that the racquet is a better buy. Anyhow, I don't think there is a full solution to the problem(s) but rather we are dependent on our moderators/administrators and our good judgement and common sense.

    Bottom line, I would rather see that we moderate ourselves as much as we can with assistance and prodding from our wonderful trio of moderators. :D
     
  10. bigredlemon

    bigredlemon Regular Member

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    I think the guidlines idea is going to be much more effective at accomplishing your goal while much less invasive with how the board is used now. As for deleting threads... i dont think that is a good idea because then no one would know what was said that caused the thread to be "bad." It's more effective to lock it.
     
    #30 bigredlemon, Apr 23, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2003
  11. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Personally, I am 100% trust kwun's judgement. I don't think he will just delete a threads, if just he thinks it makes no sense. The only reason I see threads (just a few since I joined) being deleted, I have say they must be way out of "acceptance level".

    However, if u think at least give a chance to set "examples", maybe it's better to lock it first (if possible, give a little bit explaination, if not too much work) for several days, to set the "tones" for others, then delete it later for space saving. If this idea kinda harsh to ppl, then, maybe we can just ignore what I was talking about. :eek:
     
  12. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    personally, i would rather not have any rules or policies. i think without such, it makes a place more friendly and let people express themselves. but as with any gathering of people, as the place grows, just like BF has for the past year, it is inevitable that some sort of measures needs to be in place so that the community won't go out of hand.

    in some forum that i have been to, the rules are very strict. out of topic threads are locked immediately, posters who disobey the "rules" are put into "sin bins", etc. i don't think BF needs to have such strict rules as imho that's kinda strict and not very friendly.

    it was very valuable to hear everybody's opinions. aside from the always useful comments from the regulars, a couple notables was comments from bunni on the new comer's perpective, and also from tonten's who has frequent the forum less due to repeated postings.

    we should encourage users like bunni to stay and prevent future users from losing interests like tonten.

    we can only strive to find a way to make sure that order is maintained and less people getting frustrated with the postings. so we can continue to discuss and learn about badminton, which is the goal here.

    i don't know what solutions we will come up with yet, feel free to make any more suggestions.
     
  13. swijaya0101

    swijaya0101 Regular Member

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    hi Kwun,

    just another suggestion.

    May be you should put more moderators on each forum categories ...

    If the moderators think that the posts are inappropriate, may be you could have the moderators to PM or email the user with the reason why their posts are being deleted or moved or edited.

    I seriouslly feel very angry when my posts are being deleted or edited and I am sure there are bunch of ppl out there that feel the same way.
     
  14. prophet

    prophet Regular Member

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    In many ways, I agree with what kwun and has said and the idea behind what he is saying. I agree that there are sometimes posts that are senseless and don't have much substance behind them. But I also think that if you want to engage in this forum, you should have the right to say whatever it is you want to say. Not every person has the articulation to write comments that are thought provoking and substantial all the time. But I still believe in the right to say those things. It is up to the forum 'community' as a whole discourage postings that might be deemed senseless and useless, and we do that by not responding to those type of postings.

    Ultimately, the moderators have the final authority to determine if postings cross the line of sensibility or fruitlessness and certainly should lock or delete any of these postings.

    Also in regards to post counts and postings, I for one do not have a high post count, even though I've been using this site for about 1 year. I rather enjoy just reading the discourse between members and find that I learn from that. I usually offer opinions to topics that I truly feel strongly about, or have something substantial to say. So I hope others don't think that a person who have less 'quantity' in their postings, doesn't have 'quality' in their postings, or has any less skill or knowledge about this game which we are all enamored with. And I do know that as athletes, we are learning more and more about this sport every day, and I certainly couldn't improve at all without the benefit of this site. Thanks to all the members who make BF what is it.
     
  15. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I can't really agree the idea about "PM or email". As we all know, for such a site with thousands of members, it's very hard for the moderators to "please" everyone. I mean, say, if a moderator find 10 posts should be "done with action", then he has to email 10 different ppl. Then, another moderator comes in, he might just repeat all the work again. Then,
    1. The poster won't be happy, since he will find seems all the ones in "control" all against him at once.
    2. Moderators have way too much to do. They all have their own work/lives to take care of. No one can just be a "full time" moderator here.
    3. Even provide a reason, some times poster still feel different. Ppl's standard will be different. I think it's should be the other way around, if u see ur post being deleted, moved, etc, and u think u did not do anything wrong (hardly, since I don't think moderators just clicking buttons for fun), u should PM or email ur concern to them instead.

    In my previous post, I wonder whether we can "lock a post for several days, before delete it". This way, we set a tone, and let ppl know what is right, what is wrong. However, the draw back is, the poster might think it's very harsh and embarrassing to be "set as an example".
     
  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Sure, there will always be people who feel the same way if their posts suddenly disappear or get merged.

    That's why you see some very 'superfluous' and irrelevant material still existing in some threads.

    So we try to be polite most of the time when people stray off track. Sometimes we give gentle tips which some people either ignore/don't care/don't understand.

    One of the beauties of this forum is that on the whole, participants are respectful of each other and that longer term users are willing to help out in maintaining the forum. What ways do you help?
    1) by helping out in the repeat posts and helping point out older topics
    2) not replying to irrelevant posts
    3) taking a different direction of a thread off to another thread with a more appropriate title.

    If the admin decided on an autocratic and heavy handed approach to the postings, I am certain that BF would not be as successsful as it has been.

    Definately, there are grey areas. Some people have brought these up. Sometimes action is taken, sometimes not. Sometimes a wait-and-see approach is taken to look at how things develop. Not every action can be perfect and to the satisfaction of others. (just look at the UN for example)

    The insensible postings/irrelevant postings issue has been around for a while now. It's not something that is going to go away soon.

    Definately, BF is meant to be fun, but also a place to learn from each other and discuss things to improve ourselves and benefit others. I think that's why the Administrator created the forum in the first place - it was fun to learn about different badminton communities and converse with a range of people you'd otherwise never hope to meet. For the whole badminton community's benefit, I hope it can stay that way. This thread is just one small effort to that ideal.
     
  17. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Talking about my own experience. With the huge amount of posts I posted in the past yr or so, there were several cases my posts being moved or even locked (once, only once... heheheheheh). However, I NEVER consider this as a case to "against me in person".

    The first impression was, of course, a little bit surprised, but I never felt upset about it. Why? Because I know what I did. Of course, most of the times I did not do it on purpose, (say, start to talk about some other topics in a thread, after ppl asking me some relatively un-related questions), and some times, just seems stupid enough to post a thread in the wrong forum (don't laugh, still happend, once a while, and always curse where the hell my eyes were). However, "not on purpose" is not an excuse for making mistakes. To make our community on track, sometimes, I even PM moderators to move my threads, after I found there's a mistake.

    My suggestion is, maybe we should calm down, and really think whether we really did something wrong first or not. I am sure 99.9%, moderator won't do anything without a strong reason. If that slim 0.1% happend due to mis-understanding, etc, politely email moderators will be a good way to approach.

    There's no point to be mad. We coming here often to learn, to share experience, and most important, being like a family even though ppl were living 10,000 miles apart. No one is really finger pointing each other, say who's fault is that, or who's smart enough never making an error blah blah. Careless mistakes once a while is acceptable (otherwise, guess most of u won't even get a chance to see my posts long time ago. heehhehehe :D :D ), just make sure be more careful and responsible next time.
     
  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    example

    here is one example of irrelevant postings. I can remember this one very clearly:eek:

    stop

    even the title is irrelevant
     
  19. Joanne

    Joanne Regular Member

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    Cheung, I think I remember that post...

    Personally, I think I contribute to a lot of the 'insensible posts' in this forum... I just did a search on my posts and when I compared my earlier posts when I first joined with my latest ones... :rolleyes:

    This forum is great compared to other forums I've been too, there are no strict rules but still this forum is... how do you say it? :)

    Insensible posts...what if it's in the chit-chat section? Then it ought to be fine, right? I haven't been posting much lately in BF cuz I have school, homework, activities, and exams are coming up. Even if I do, I've a feeling it'll all be crap...

    Hmm...perhaps if someone wants to know why his/her thread was deleted/locked, they should PM the moderators instead of being angry and leaving this forum or stuff like that (I've seen it happen before). An example : The admin of forum X had deleted a thread because it was all crap, the person who started this thread was very very very angry and left a long message, scolding the admin with a lot of bad words, and then deleted himself from the forum. How some people can be so petty beats me. :rolleyes:

    As for me... I've had 1 thread (as far as I know) deleted... and a few moved. But I've been looking around, usually when the moderators lock a certain thread they'll post the reason why, so there's really no need to feel angry or PM the moderators in that kind of case. I'll say don't disturb our busy:)p) moderators with PMs when he's already explained why. ;)
     
    #39 Joanne, Apr 30, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2003
  20. Yodums

    Yodums Regular Member

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    Most of the insensible postings come from general, equipment, and market place forum I guess. I mean, chit chat is a place where you just talk about non sense right? Well most of the time.

    PS, I think what they're trying to say is that the quality in people's posts is not helping the thread therefore they should not post at all. e.g. Subject is Carbonex series and Mr. X says Carbonex sucks. Just post what you think it is right.
     
    #40 Yodums, Apr 30, 2003
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2003

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