Help with Stroke Please!!

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Mason, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Shots from yesterday
     
  2. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Moderately above isn't a problem, neither is being the weakest. After all, there is ALWAYS a weakest player on a court, right?

    Do you think in the next level up, if you played with the strongest player, you could win a game? If so, then you should definitely give it a shot. Such games are common, because stronger players need weaker players to make games even with players less strong than them. It also makes them happy when they can win with a 'handicap'! If you're losing heavily even with the strongest player, then you'd probably be best finding other groups, but this is rarely the case for intermediates.

    Yes, it can hurt your pride to lose, or to only win when playing with the strongest, but that is how you improve. In fact, if your objective is improvement, you should always want to be the weakest on court ;) Most people cannot mentally stand that though - it takes a special person to be happy to be the worst on court all the time. *cough* @Borkya *cough*

    Eventually you'll grow to the strongest group and still be the weakest there. But then if you went back to your original group and you'd be winning every time.
     
  3. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I think you may have misunderstood my post. I would love to play with players better than me for every game and lose every game. What I am saying is the better players are not willing to play with me unless they have no other option.
     
  4. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    And your stated reason is that the games would be non-competitive. Is that strictly true because you feel you'd lose every game no matter who you paired with out of that group?
     
  5. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    I have played with thier groups sometimes and sometimes my team will win. But in general I get the sense the “good” players at this club would prefer to play with themselves as opposed to adding in someone like me that is a worse player. I completely understand their decision though because if I am playing with a group and 3 of us are on the same level and 1 person comes in and is horrible , then the game is not fun. I will play the game but it would not be enjoyable for me. It’s not that I am unwilling to try to help someone but overall I come to play and have fun and have competitive games

    I also do not nag the better players to play with me. If I asked them to play , they would , for one game at least.
    I personally feel, the more I improve the More likely that I will get to play with the better players. So I’ll just continue to get better and better.
     
  6. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    You appear to be convinced that you are significantly weaker and the group above you playing seriously will always win against you, no matter who you pair with. For example, me trying to play with high county players will almost always result in a loss because they are that far above me.

    However, I regularly visit clubs where I am the weakest player on court, and as long as I pair with the strongest player, then the games are even, even if the opponents play seriously.

    Most of these groups were resistant to me joining them - they'd rather have a match where they know everyone's attention and weaknesses, as it allows them a level of anticipation and they can get frustrated that the unknown player is winning points off relatively basic shots, simply because they can't read them. Equally, as I played more with them, I learned their strengths/weaknesses which bridges the skill level quicker.

    Ultimately it's your decision, but I would really push to play with stronger players as often as you can, even if you feel like you're 'nagging'. My personal opinion is that I think you also need to change the way you think about lower level players.

    You've said you don't particularly enjoy playing with weaker players, but perhaps you don't appreciate that playing with weaker players can also be beneficial. If you are partnered with a weak player, then you must push yourself harder - this is playing similar to against higher level opponents! Equally if you play against a pair that has a weaker player, you need to try and target the weaker player. Often the weaker player is stronger is some respects anyway. For example, I often find MD pairs who will lose to an XD pair because the woman is stronger at the net, even if they are weaker than other the other 3 male players in the rearcourt/in defence.

    Anyway, it is your decision who you want to play with, but ultimately having a mix of games who are weaker, the same level, AND stronger than you is best for the badminton community.
     
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  7. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    No. The angle at your elbow is very much a matter of personal preference / style. 90 degrees is fine; just don't let it go much wider than that.
     
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  8. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Ok thank you
     
  9. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Also worth noting that you tend to see the wider ~90 degree angle when the racket prep faces sideways, rather than forwards. This matches what you do (also me, as it happens).

    There are exceptions. Wei Nan has a wide + forwards angle, IIRC. And he hits like a f***ing truck.
     
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  10. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Ok I see
    I’m finding not only do I not have enough practice time at the gym but when I do get there early to practice for 15 minutes I never seem to get someone that properly lifts a shuttle consistently
     
  11. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Collect old shuttles and do a multishuttle feed, rather than using a single shuttle. It reinforces the fact that they need to provide you a good feed, rather than trying to make you make a mistake.

    If you need to use a single shuttle, try to give them a gentle (easy) net return after every drop/clear/smash practice stroke to give them and easy opportunity to lift. So a sequence should be:

    1) Good smash, (easy block), easy net, (good lift), repeat
    2) Good drop, (easy net), easy net, (good lift), repeat
    3) Good clear, (easy drop), easy net, (good lift), repeat

    The easy shots (net in particular) should travel with a large margin over the net, and be played towards your opponents racquet, so they have no pressure to lift. Each of you should never need to travel more than half of the length of the court - if you are covering the full length front to back or back to front, then you are not focusing on the overhead stroke production.

    The point of the exercise is to practise your overhead action. Do not make the mistake of trying to train both players at the same time by competing against each other in a drill.

    After 5-10 feeds, switch over and let him practise.
     
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  12. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

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    I agree with this. Asking them to play one game with you isn't gonna kill them or ruin their night. Then you can slowly work up to two games a night, then three and so on. You say you hope they notice you and your improvement, and I totally understand the sentiment, but I doubt they do. Your group is not very high level, so the next group up isn't going to be high level either. In the beginner and intermediate level groups people don't really pay attention to the players in lower levels because everyone is looking forward to the higher level groups, not looking back. It's only when you get to a higher level group does the top level groups look back to the higher levels for future/possible recruitment (at least in my experience.)

    So you can't just hope and wish they will notice or choose you. That's not their job. It's your job! So you need to get in their vision so they can see.
    You already are strong and motivated pushing yourself in the physical aspects of badminton, time to work on your mental game of being brave and getting out of your comfort zone emotionall.

    Actually, not to keep plugging myself but I DID make a youtube video about this exact topic. (Please excuse the death pallor I had. Within 24 hours of making this video I was in the hospital for the second time getting my second emergency blood transfusion.) I've really worked my way up though the ranks of groups in my area, and I started as a 100% stranger, so this is something I have a lot of experience with, haha.

     
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  13. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Try to find clinics and group lessons so you could practice more than 15 minutes each time. Pay attention to your weaknesses, and/or seek feedbacks from stronger players who play with/against you for 1-2 things to focus on at any time.

    Old/used shuttles have some use/mileage to some extent. Once you get your shots good/close enough, you probably should "invest" in new shuttles (or at least keep to only slightly used ones). Worn out shuttles have different speeds and would affect your practice.

    To get to play with stronger players, in addition to asking for games, you could also join local tournaments. Play in more than 1 level/grade to maximize your game exposure, but start with the lowest possible. You could also look up opportunities for league play, and see if you could get in one.
     
  14. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Just watched your latest video a little (1 minute?). I recall you're the one in red pants, right? Just before the rally begins, you should already be in ready lower stance with knee bent. You're now standing straight up quite often.

    When you're on front court, keep your racket higher, at around tape level. Your intention is to help block or otherwise cut off flat returns from your opponents. You could probably move back a bit deeper when your opponents lift. THere's a video on Youtube talking about this positioning under the user name "coaching badminton".

    You could also work on your low serves. They're now visibly too high. Get it down to about 1 inch above net top, and drop in service line no more than 2-3 inches. That's your practice goal.

    When you're playing (and when you're resting), learn to observe players' habits and limitations. E.g. some players (almost) always play cross-court lift in response to a low serve, a lot of lower level players can't play good backhand. These observations allow you to anticipate responses a tad earlier, and attack aggressively.
     
  15. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    No I’m not the person in the red shorts. I am in the blue
     
  16. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Agree. And really, you may also want to put yourself in the same shoes as the stronger players. You yawn for playing with stronger players. So you should perhaps keep this in mind, and give weaker players chances to play with you. They too are looking for improvements.
     
  17. raymond

    raymond Regular Member

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    Okay, pardon me. In that case, you're the better one in the pair. Very active. I'd have to spend some time to re-watch it.
     
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  18. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    :D
    I play all the time with weaker players who are looking to improve. It’s the lower level players, that have been playing for many years that do not want to get better , do not want to move their feet and do not want suggestions for improvement and are there just to socialize. Those are the people that I try to to play with because I’m the end , I am there for recreation and enjoyment and its not enjoyable for me to play with those people. :D
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    So far, your videos only show the overhead action. We don't see other aspects of your game. Perhaps it's time to start developing the other techniques.
     
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  20. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    No problem at all, In fact he is my younger brother so we look a like. We end up playing in many games together......
     

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