Gade vs Lin Dan

Discussion in 'Korean Open 2004 / Japan Open 2004' started by Morten, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. BoboTheBadder

    BoboTheBadder Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Just from the score it seems to me Lin Dan used the same tactic against Gade this time as he did at AE2004.
     
  2. HoNgHoNg

    HoNgHoNg Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    base in Spore, heart at wherever Lin Dan n Xuanze
    yeah~ Lin Dan won :D

    n yes i agree.... Lin Dan got better stamina bcos he is much younger than Gade... but Gade has more experience n higher mentality in tournaments

    yah quite similar to AE2004 finals.... Lin Dan lost the 1st game n catch up in the 2nd.... as if he is trying to strain Gade's stamina
     
  3. ants

    ants Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Messages:
    13,156
    Likes Received:
    25
    Occupation:
    Entrepreneur , Modern Nomad
    Location:
    Malaysian Citizen of the World
    That makes HongHong happy.. however.. she will be the happiest if Lindan win this tournament :D
     
  4. Morten

    Morten Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Denmark
    its possible but you can't predict anything from scores without seing the match and in the 2nd and 3rd set it was pretty close with 15-9 15-9 not like in AE 15-4 15-8. Lin Dan is just a superman, but with Gade getting in better shape who will then win in the Olympics and what about Choong Hann and Chen Hong? Or even perhaps a Taufik, these 3 shuttlers will in my personal thought peak at the olympics and not as Lin Dan in the tournaments before.
     
  5. JChen99

    JChen99 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,046
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Realtor
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Is it possible that Lin Dan is a slow warmer? By slow warmer I mean when the match started he's not completely warm, but during the first game he warms himself up pretty well. Then by the 2nd/3rd game he's able to play at his best? (this is just a guess cuz I've never seen him play yet... but I know some ppl are like that... where it takes them an awful amount of time to warm up... but once warm their caliber is a lot higher than in the beginning)
     
  6. Morten

    Morten Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2002
    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Denmark
    yeah i think he is.. giving up a set would be to stupid against a player like Gade.
     
  7. HoNgHoNg

    HoNgHoNg Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    base in Spore, heart at wherever Lin Dan n Xuanze
    hehe.... yeah~ i'm happy for him.... :D
    n i don think he is a slow warmer.... because he did win 2 games consecutively b4 :p
     
  8. sunzhi

    sunzhi Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2002
    Messages:
    907
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore/Indonesia
    i dont think Lin Dan is a slow warmer as most of his games (including against hi-profile players) are won in straight games.. he only played in 2 rubber games this year ie. against Peter Gade in AE final and the q-final match today...
     
  9. Baddy Fan

    Baddy Fan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    I think talk of Lin Dan giving the first set to Gade is, with all due respect, ridiculous. It also doesn't give proper respect to Gade's calibre. Even if there is such a strategy (which I don't believe there is), wouldn't it be safer to give the 2nd set? Just my 2 cents ..
     
  10. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    6,526
    Likes Received:
    22
    Occupation:
    Designing and producing quality feather shuttlecoc
    Location:
    Hong Kong
    As all coaches will tell you, you win matches either through :
    1. Brains
    2. Technical superiority
    3. Tactical superiority
    4. Physical fitness
    Peter Gade may be better than Lin Dan in the first 3, as he should be given his experience, but Lin Dan's superiority over Peter Gade in 4 outweighs all the 1, 2, and 3 put together. And the prognosis is not good : it is more difficult for Peter, given his age, to make any quantum leap in physical fitness level exceeding Lin Dan's, i.e. say Peter improves his fitness by a maximum of 5%; Lin Dan, because he is much younger and is capable of improving his fitness by a greater margin, improves by 10%-the gap only gets worse. Time is cruel, and time is not on Peter's side, as he will progressively lose his edge over Lin Dan in 1, 2, and 3 as the years, nay months, roll by. It would make more sense for Peter to further increase his edge on 1, 2 and 3, because it is easier on his body and it will pay back better.
     
  11. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,004
    Likes Received:
    2
    -

    If you wre running against 1 opponent in the 400m, would you try to build a big lead over him in the 1,2,3 or last lap?

    Lin knows Peter will go all out in the 1st game, he has no choice.so why would you want to follow Gade and let him burn you out?Why not wait for a better chance?
     
  12. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    40,268
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    absolutely brilliant analogy Bbn!

    in cycling, there is this tactic that is school book simple. if you are trying to do a one-on-one race, at the beginning of the race, you follow the pace of the other biker, you let him lead at the front, you stay in the slip-stream and do the least amount of work. you just let him make the pace. by the end of the race, the leading guy will be so exhausted having to make all the pace, the guy in the back will be fresh, pulls off and dash to the finish line.

    i think we can draw analogy here. Lin Dan at the beginning let Gade do all the work, let Gade attack as much as he wishes. it doesn't matter if Lin wins or lose the first game, he just need to tired Gade out. by the end of the match, Gade will be exhausted and will not be able to keep up with Lin. Lin dashes away and run away with the win.
     
  13. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    5,436
    Likes Received:
    3
    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    If you want to know how tired he will be after one set, you try an exercise where One person attacks, and the other one defends, blocking to net, the attacker attacks the net with net shot, and then defender lifts for attacker to smash again, after 5 mins, the attacker, with jump smashing and rushing to net, then running behind shuttle to jump smash again, will very quickly be out of steam.


    As Taneepak says gade may be ahead at this point in points 1,2,3. However, the difference is not big enough. Even if gade plays slower, ie less attacking, lin will still win, as he can be patient, and wait for gade to run out of stamina that way, or just take control, and run him around. I believe He will never beat Lin dan, Sweeping statement, but I believe true, No one can in my opinion, at this point on the world stage, I believe a new era is upon us. Watch him play and see how easy it is for him.
     
  14. Qidong

    Qidong Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Waiting to be out-sourced
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    Gade vs Lin makes me think of Frost vs Yang Yang/Zhu Chin Hwa - Physcial fitness wins everything.
     
  15. belfastnole

    belfastnole Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2004
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    doncaster england
    I agree with qidong , having watched some of Han`s excellent dvds gade is definitely playing the morten frost role although playing a more attacking less strategic game - I hope he does not suffer morten`s fate at major champs i.e. world`s and olympics, following morten`s so near and yet so far efforts in the WC 1985 and 1987
     
  16. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,004
    Likes Received:
    2
    -

    I think it is true only for Yang Yang.

    After 1985 I dont remember Zhao ever beating Frost again.

    Zhao's physical condition was bad after 1985, to beat him one just had to drag the game as long as possible.Even Forst at 30 years was in better physical condition at 26 or sth.
     
  17. Baddy Fan

    Baddy Fan Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    IMHO the analogy with cycling and running is spurious. Perhaps it may be analogous if the races where best of 3. Badminton is a game where a couple of unforced errors can make a big difference. Whilst I didn't watch the match, winning the second set by a small margin of 15-12 is really taking it to the edge in terms of risk. Yes, you can have a strategy of tiring out your opponent but that is far different from giving up a set to do that. I watched the AE2004 final as a friend in Malaysia sent me a video of it. Unfortunately, the latter part of the first set was not shown due to intermission for berita (news)! However, watching the first part of the first set, it simply wasn't obvious to me that Lin Dan wasn't giving his best. In fact, the commentator mentioned afterwards that Lin Dan lost the first set due to too many unforced errors (hitting the shuttle out). To me a more plausible explanation is that Lin Dan took a while to really get into his rhythm and stride. He hardly made any unforced errors in the 2nd and 3rd sets.
     
  18. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    5,436
    Likes Received:
    3
    Occupation:
    Construction
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    Who won the second set 15-12??

    In all england it was 15-4 in second, and Japan open 15-9.
     
  19. HoNgHoNg

    HoNgHoNg Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    826
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    base in Spore, heart at wherever Lin Dan n Xuanze
    in both AE2004 finals n JO quarter-finals....
    gade won the 1st game n lin dan won the 2nd n 3rd

    n i agree with Baddy Fan....
    Lin Dan is always giving his best everytime.... i don understand y pple say he is giving away the 1st set juz to tired gade out....
    n true enough 15-12 is too risky... he may juz lost instead of getting to play the 3rd set....
    even if it's a strategy against gade.... i don think anyone will use the same strategy again n again... cos ur opponent might already have guard against u using these strategies...
    juz some of my opinion :cool:
     
    #39 HoNgHoNg, Apr 9, 2004
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2004
  20. Qidong

    Qidong Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,766
    Likes Received:
    6
    Occupation:
    Waiting to be out-sourced
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    Yes, Zhao's lung problem really costed him a lot. But it's still true for the 20 years old Zhao. Lin Dan is also 20 right now. :)
     

Share This Page