Gade vs Lin Dan

Discussion in 'Korean Open 2004 / Japan Open 2004' started by Morten, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Spurious, whatever. This are coaching tips fro ex-World Champions

    and national coaches.

    Try asking a few really famous players and coaches and see if it is "spurious".
     
  2. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    If you have played enough badminton or watched enough matches or even searched the forum, you will realise that in badminton, play must be continuous and time wasting can be penalised, for obvious reasons.

    Time-out between sets 1/2 is mins, rubber ste 3 mins, doesn't give much time to recover.

    These are basics.
     
  3. Baddy Fan

    Baddy Fan Regular Member

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    IMHO means "in my humble opinion". ie. I'm expressing my point of view just like you are. No need to get all defensive. Fine, coaches tell their players to throw away the first set as a strategy. BTW, I'm really impressed that you've been chatting with famous players to get this info.:rolleyes:
     
  4. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Baddy Fan, in msia every other person plays badminton, the Thomas Cupper could easily be your next door neighbour.

    But thereal tips are all available in very common coaching books.

    I think when you really get to participate in tours that you realise what a physical game this is.

    Just imagine playing 2 sets for 30 min with 1 min rest in between.

    Dont you think that's worse than running a 20 Km distance race?And all the time flailing your arms and hopping all over the place, stretching, stooping what not.

    I think its torture esp when 2 players are evenly matched.

    That's why a lot a lot of local players lament playing the game, having to work so hard for so little reward.And getting injured.

    Sorry if you feel hurt but maybe it' ll shock you and reveal the truth.

    Try it sometime and tell us how you feel .I mean really playing 2 sets for 30 mins.
     
  5. khelben

    khelben Regular Member

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    hey chill dude! :D it's just an opinion... everyone is entitled to theirs... and here's mine... though i throughly agree badminton is a very demanding physical sport, frankly i think running 20+++k is by far a more tiring and mentally challenging experience... you dun see badminton players dropping dead in the middle of a game do you... unlike quite a few runners who have...

    i think perhaps if lin did intentionally lose the first game to gade for the sake of tactics, it would probably be something more than just trying to tire gade out... maybe more mental... like letting gade feel like he can win after the first set then turning on the engines and surprising gade in the second and not letting him recover from that shock in the third... i dunno but it's also a possibility and well that's just my opinion...

    btw it's 90 secs between 1 and 2 and 5 mins between 2 and 3...
     
  6. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    Right on Dude, maybe 20 km is exageration.

    But facts :

    I have several friend sin 30s 40 s who died in the badminton or squash courts during streouous games.

    At international level I can think of 1 Chinese All England champion who fainted after completing a 3 setter in 1984 Thomas Cup.

    I can think of I chinese international who suffered a heart attack in 1994 in HK tournament.

    Also too many cases of players in 90s vomitting during 3 setters.

    Perhaps instead of taking it to the limit nowadays pros just stop trying and live to fight another day.

    Just for the record.
     
  7. other

    other Regular Member

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    man......people have died playing? you were there?
     
  8. sunzhi

    sunzhi Regular Member

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    i do hv a personal experience of some yrs back whn i ws playing for the provincial team, a team mate (he ws 25 and fit lk a bull) collapsed in the 3rd set of a lengthy rubber game and ws rushed to hospital, sad to say he didnt recover and went into coma for 8 days before passing away.. the cause of death?? nt sure whts the correct medical term, its smthing to do with the lack of oxygen in brain... rip ismet...
     
  9. khelben

    khelben Regular Member

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    oh man this is scary... pple DIED? woah.. must have been really involved in the game...
     
  10. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    I know that, but Lin didnt win the second game 15-12, he lost the first game 15-12, then won second game 15-4 in AE and 15-9 in JO. My point was that lin wasnt cutting it fine as you infer saying that he almost lost the second set 15-12. He didnt.


    As Bbn says, When playing what most people play singles, there are many errors, rallies are slower, as smashes are slower/less accurate. In international play, as you have seen they have long rallies, and less break in between. watch a game, and count how many shots there are in a rally.

    work out the average mumber a strokes, then, do your standard footwork routine, moving to all corners, as fast as you can with that averge number of movements (say for example 8), and have ten seconds rest(like in a game serving, drinks etc.). Then do it, for 30 mins ( actually a short timespan for a game.) Then see how tired you are after.

    Imagine gade is jump smashing for that time, whilst Lin is just moving to the side, blocking it, then lifting to the back court. Be aware gade will be much quicker than you, he will be jump smashing, and you wont.
     
  11. HoNgHoNg

    HoNgHoNg Regular Member

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    base in Spore, heart at wherever Lin Dan n Xuanze
    ohh... i was also wondering wat 15-12.... hahaha
    nvm... juz some confusion :p
     
  12. Morten

    Morten Regular Member

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    I think most of you ae wrong when you are mentioning that Lin Dan lost 1st set to tire Gade out. If Lin Dan is superior in fitness and stamina compared to Gade as you guys say, why wouldnt he then play with 100% pace from the beginning and then tire Gade out from the beginning. Letting Peter control the game and give him a set would just make peters chance of winning even bigger. I read on gade's homepage that he lead 8-1 in 2nd set but that Lin Dan showed amazing mentality and struggled back. It's not mentioned that Peter went out of gas
     
  13. other

    other Regular Member

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    i think it's been suggested before, that gade is better in the other respects apart from fitness......therefore if both players went 100% in the first set, then gade would still have won (most probably). They would also both be pretty tired, as they would have pushed each other to the limit. Therefore the advantage in fitness/stamina remaining for LD over Gade would count for less, as LD himself will also be slow
     
  14. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Yes!!

    Therfore with no advantage in fitness, gades technical, tactical, and experience advantages would enable him to win.
     
  15. taneepak

    taneepak Regular Member

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    But win, he did not. If the fitness parity is true, then Gade must be deficient in one or more of the other 3 areas, areas in which his experience and years ought to give him an edge over Lin Dan, but is now not to be and has been seen not to be. If this is true, then the future doesn't bode well for Gade. I would like to think it is a comparative fitness issue, in which case he has a fighting chance. If Lin Dan is mentally superior to Gade, badminton-wise, then what else can Gade do to really beat Lin Dan consistently?
     
  16. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    What I meant was, If they both played hard in the first game, then lin would be tired as he would have attacked as well as gade, so the fitness factor would be even, thus allowing gade better ability in technical, tactical, and experience to allow him to win.


    The point of this debate about Lin tiring gade and losing the first game, is that lin isnt tired in the second, Gade is, and with lins already superior fitness that double advantage outweighs the technical, tacical, and experince advantages gade has over lin
     
  17. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    If Lin uses all your points above to beat Gade, wouldn't that mean that Lin is the one with the better stategy? Gade would be the one who is mentally weaker, because he allowed Lin to win the same way twice in a row.
     
  18. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    Not mentally weaker, Tactically weaker, as he lost the same way without progress. Unfortunatley, he has no choice.

    This is the only way he can beat lin, By playing as fast as he can and hope lin starts slow, and then cant get into it in the second game. If gade plays slower, he will still tire himself out, making him unable to play fast when he wants to, and therefor still lose.
     
  19. Morten

    Morten Regular Member

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    There was big progress between the two games :mad: . Gade explained that he had the match under control leading 15-7 8-1 but then he lost concentration maybe because he felt that it went his way to easy. When he lost his concentration he went down in pace and Lin Dan got into the match again. He didn't mention anything about getting tired as he did in the AE. Look out for Gade in the Olympics, if not loosing concentration in the 2nd set he could perhaps have trashed Lin Dan easily.
     
  20. seven

    seven New Member

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    If Gade had good mental strength, he wouldn't be Gade anymore!! :p
    Anyway, the players won't give their tactics out publicly so we'll never know exactly who's right!

    Personnally, I think one of Lin Dan's great qualities is his capacity of changing the pace of the game for mental and tactical purpose (not specifically against Gade, but against any opponent).
     

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