Denmark Open Results

Discussion in 'Dutch / Danish / German Open 2003' started by seven, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Ra/Lee fell to a Chinese pair again. it seems like they have lost the edge they had on the Chinese.

    2cents. interesting point. we have seen many young players who would burst into the badminton scene from relatively unknown, and then they will fade and some continues to be at the top level, while other struggle. examples that i can think of are Lin, Bao (as you mentioned), Taufik, Sony.

    others players are different, and normally would slowly rise to the top level, and most players are in this category.

    as for the reason why that is so, i am not sure, were they truely better when they were younger, or was their relative less known (and less analyzed) status to their advantage?
     
  2. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    Congrudulations to Wei/Zhao for defeating Ra/Lee, but...

    It is really ridiculous that Wei/Zhao holding the number 1 spot so long. You can see how absurd the IBF ranking system is.

    Wei/Zhao is the current Denmark title holder, and which is the only title they have. Last year, they beat all unknowns to get the title (They beat tina/line, jo/lita, pernille/mette, vita/eng, mia/lotte none of them were world level).

    While Gao ling/Huang Sui have 6 titles, Zhang Jiewen/Yang Wei have 4 titles. The reason Wei/Zhao is number one, just because they participate more tounaments. Actually, the IBF ranking system is just a counter to sum how many matches the players played in the past year. How absurd and stupid.

    In fact, Wei/Zhao are just the by-product of the re-structure of the Chinese women's double. Previously, Chinese has 3 pairs, Gao/Huang S, Wei/Zhang, Huang N/Yang. Gao/Huang was okay, but the other two were not strong enough. Then, Chinese team retired Huang NY. Regroup Yang/Zhang as a strong pair. and I don't know the reason why Zhao TT was choosen as a local 3rd stringer to team with Wei Y.

    The correct ranking should be (according to the archievements):
    1: Gao/Huang (2nd according to IBF)
    2: Yang / Zhang (3rd IBF, this pair is, in fact, the most powerful and the strongest )
    3: Ra/Lee (6th IBF)
    4: Wei/Zhao (1st IBF)
     
  3. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    Good point! It is really to the point about the maturing process of the players.

    But Bao suffered a lot at the beginning. He was not good enough, he lost many many to teammates like Lin dan, Wu Yunyong. But he was choosen a year ahead to join the international competition than Lin and Wu because he beat Lin surprisely at the junior WC(and finally won) and he's tall and physically better than Lin and others. So coaches decided to give him more chances. But not good is not good, Bao lost in the qualification or 1st round continuously 5 times in a row when he began to fight at the internation opens.

    I have another example of the really fast rising star. That's Zhao Jianhua. When he first played at international tournaments in 1984, he defeated Frost, number 1 that time, and grabbed the title. Then he pocketed swedish open title, then he beat Frost, Nerhov(?) again at Scotish open and won the title, and without stop, defeated Frost, Han Jian(the world champion that year) at Japan open, and grabbed the title. That's not enough, he continued to won at all england by beating all big names including Frost, Lim (Indonesia best that time), and won the title again. Then back home at Beijing, China. I was a teenager that time, witnessed he defeated Han Jian again at the Capital Stadium by 15:0, 15:1. Han Jian was the World Champion that year! But unfortunately Zhao quitted from WC, and quited for more than a year. The reason is still a mystrey. Some people said he wanted to flee to other country for better life, and caught by chinese government. When he came back, he was never as good as he first emerged

    That was really no one can compare! or even close! as how quick, fast and powerful as a young unknown player from nowhere can rise. Bao is mentally weak, and Lin is physically not strong. Taufik is just a regional champion, never won big, never won in Europe, China, Japan...Sony is still far away from top players, cannot even compare with the above three. Kwun, you are right, he is quick to make himself known. Think about Hendrewan. I thought he's over and no future from the age of 22, never won anything worth to menstion until he's really old. He was just the opposite example as Zhao Jianhua.
     
  4. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Taufik i believe won the Singapore Open when he was 14. Sony won the Asian Champ.

    but i agree, if players we mentioned can be called "talents", then Zhao is a "super talent", if he had kept up, he will certainly be beating everybody.

    not gonna spread another conspiracy theory. but i heard Zhao caught some disease (was it hepititas?) and thus unable to play. then he made a small come back a couple of years later. then he faded away again.
     
  5. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    Sorry to mention the first titile he won is Malaysia Open (1984), then Scottish(1984), then Japan(1985), then Sweden(1985), then All England(1985), then in Beijing (1985) beating World Champion Han Jian 15:0, 15:1.
     
  6. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    I agree that Taufik is really talented. But Sony? still need to see. Asian champ is not that big. Chinese Chen Gang and Chen Hong won that when they were young, but no body thought they were talented that time.

    Zhao had no problem with his liver. The official saying is his lung disease, but the people inside didn't believe it. Now look it back, Zhao was the first Chinese player immigrant to another country.

    By the way, the age of the player is not reliable, especially for players from Indonesia. I am not against that country, but I have evidence.
     
  7. Han

    Han Regular Member

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    China vs Malaysia

    So who will win the MSSF?
    Choon Hann vs Lin Dan :
    I don't think these two met before, in terms of attacking Lin Dan is one of the best. Choon Hann will have to play his best to have chance to win over Lin Dan. If Choon Hann can play to his WC standard then we will win or else ...
    Roslin vs Chen Yu:
    Still wonder why Lee Chong Wei unable to beat Roslin, did Misbun ask him to lose? Anyway, Chen Yu will have upperhand with his quick attack.
    Lets hope one Malaysian and 1 Chinese in the final so we don't have to see exhibition games in the final.
    Han
     
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Hey, 2cents, I remember reading on IBF website somewhere (or maybe Star Online) that that is exactly the intention of IBF. Give more points to players who play more to encourage more participation of tournaments. There was a time when Hendrawan was World Champion but only played 3rd singles in Thomas Cup. Some people argue that that was ridiculous but if he doesn't play any tournaments, how can you tell what ranking a player or pair should be? I beleive this year will be better becuase of Olympic qualification. BTW, I really like your calculation of the summary of the Olympic points accrued so far.

    Zhao was supposed to have pneumonia in 1985 just before WC. Lots of people speculated it was for other reasons that accounted for his absence.
     
  9. dsc

    dsc Regular Member

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    Clarifiation on Zhao 1 Year off

    From my last discussion with Yang-Yang, Zhao took one year off because he had a very bad asthma. I believe he was going to compete a big tournament in Canada but then bailed out because his asthma was hindering him badly. They had to take him to the emergency/hospital. It took him approximately 1 year to recover and come back to the top spot again.

    Also I heard that Zhao did not like to warm up too long nor play long game. Probably because of his asthma. What confused me is that he smokes. I don't think this kind of sickness cooperate well with bad habit such as smoking, eventhough it is a "light" cigarrette.
     
  10. 2cents

    2cents Regular Member

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    I read that argument too about the IBF ranking theory. But that theory is stupid and absurd. Beating a final oppornent will give you the same point as beating at 1st round. That is not ranking, it is just counting(mostly not correct counting).

    For example, Taufik beat many big names, and grabbed the INA open title, he had 6 wins and 0 losss, and got 480 points. Taufik skipped Singapore open.

    Susilo won 3 easy early rounds at Singapore open, 3 wins 1 loss, got 264 points, then won another 3 easy early rounds at Batam, another 3 wins 1 loss, got another 264 points. Totally he didn't win against big names, 6 wins 2 losses (definitely worse results by any means), but he got 538 points, which is much higher than Taufik's.

    Wu YY won 7 matches at INA open, 7 wins 1 loss (also clearly better than Susilo), but got only 336 points (Compare to Susilo's 538 points). Wu YY did play more matches than Taufik, and won more matches than Taufik, but also has less points than Taufik 336 points. (This is reasonably for us because Wu beat lower class players, this example just back counters IBF rule for encourage players to play more)


    If you don't play, you of course don't have any points. But winning the final is different from winning at the first round. There are a lot of way to make it different. Tennis ranking is one of the model, Golf is another.

    China government news agency said that Zhao had a pneumonia, the acute inflammation of the lungs. But when the news I first heard from Voice of American and Taiwan radio station was that he was try to escape from Chinese team, but failed. The truth was he was on perfect condition the 1st day, and sent home immediately with a company the 2nd day without giving any reason. After he's back to China and the speculations, China news said he got lung disease. Some players and coaches from his hometown wanted to visit him, but was not allowed by Chinese government.
     
  11. Moff

    Moff Regular Member

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    Camilla Martin

    Live TV have started in Denmark.

    Arcording to co-kommentator Poul-Erik Højer Larsen, Camilla Martin is very tired after her match yesterday.

    Kim and Ra just won the XD finals 17-15 15-10

    More live TV news later
     
  12. whizkelv

    whizkelv Regular Member

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    Re: China vs Malaysia

    I'll bet for Wong CH vs Chen Yu final!
    However, Lin Dan should be Wong CH's toughest opposition in this meet. Shall he manage to overcome Lin, I think the title will be his. Either way, the winner of Wong-Lin will likely take the crown!:)
     
  13. whizkelv

    whizkelv Regular Member

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    Wong vs Lin

    Lin Dan raced to a 3-0 lead in just less than 1 minute!
     
  14. whizkelv

    whizkelv Regular Member

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    Zhang Ning vs Zhou Mi

    Zhou Mi leading 8-0 in game 1!!
     
  15. whizkelv

    whizkelv Regular Member

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    Re: Wong vs Lin

    6-2 for Lin Dan
     
  16. Moff

    Moff Regular Member

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    Now 10-4 Lin Dan

    He is looking very good. His netgame is very nice
     
  17. Moff

    Moff Regular Member

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    Now 10-8

    Wong CH is starting to getting is game together. He has made a few points on some good smashes from backcourt.
     
  18. whizkelv

    whizkelv Regular Member

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    Moff, you must be watching live on TV now.
    How is Wong CH's form today?
     
  19. whizkelv

    whizkelv Regular Member

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    12-9 to Lin Dan now!
     
  20. Moff

    Moff Regular Member

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    Wong CH was a little slow at the beginning of the 1. set, but now he is moving very fast around the court. He is looking good.

    But so is Lin Dan also. He was just down on the floor in the middle of a rally, but got back up again and won the rally on a trick shot.

    Now 12-10
     

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