Contenders' strategy to Rio

Discussion in 'Olympics 2016 - RIO' started by latecomer, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    I am not a Lin Dan’s fan. I do not have any intentions of speak falsehood either. Lin Dan was widely recognized as “All-Time Great” for winning numerous “majors” in the world of badminton; such that nobody even comes close in terms of achievement. A closer look at the world of badminton, however, gives a fairly different picture from what was widely being told. The two Olympic gold medals and five world titles are certainly his individual achievement; but the team competition, albeit we cannot disregard his effort, is certainly not his own achievement.

    Officially, BWF Major Event or more accurately known as “Level 1” Event, according to BWF General Competition Regulations (GCR) Appendix 10 – BWF Tournament Sanction Policy and BWF GCR Appendix 6 – World Ranking System, includes Thomas/Uber Cup, Sudirman Cup, World Championships/Summer Olympic Games, Suhandinata Cup, Eye-Level Cups, and World Senior Championships. These events are never to be called “majors” officially, that is according to BWF Regulations, but as “Level 1”. BWF does unofficially call them as Major Events from time to time; but they are not being designated so in regulations. Or more accurately speaking, “major” does not specifically refer to “Level 1” events.

    As far as individual achievement is concerned, other than World Championships/Summer Olympics, none of the “Level 1” events truly count towards individual success. World Championships/Summer Olympics is offering highest ranking points, the title of “World Champion” or “Olympic Champion”, and a gold medal but with zero prize money. Being “Level 1” is mainly due to the fact that it is the ONLY competition being held within a single calendar year; but do not always have top players (based upon world ranking) compete among each other. Although players do need to qualify based upon world ranking, lower-ranked players from other countries can qualify because each member association can only send limited participants. It’s also question to be asked how a single tournament result can be used to determine player’s strength instead of having more samples within a single calendar year. According to World Ranking System, World Championship is only one tournament; player’s strength should be determined using the ten best tournament results according to tournament classification. It’s no wonder why BWF World Superseries as a tour has much greater influence over the BWF World Ranking despite the fact that World Championship offers highest ranking point. The rationale behind ten best tournament results is that players’ performance could have ups and downs in a calendar year.

    How is then, BWF World Superseries Premier, the five top-tier tournaments, that have the participation from only top players, become any less valuable the World Championships itself? Depending on the participation, some regular Superseries tournaments have the level of competition comparable to even Superseries Premier. In fact, according to BWF GCR regulation 2.9, Major Tournaments are any tournament sanctioned by BWF that accepts entries from more than three top-ranked players from other member associations; by definition, Superseries Premier and Superseries tournaments are major tournaments.

    Why should we ignore the reality of BWF-sanctioned tournaments before we determine a player’s achievement? Among greatest achievements of Lin Dan should include 19 Superseries tittles. Of course, if you put it this way, Lin Dan’s seemingly unfathomable achievement seems to be greatly diminished. But that is the reality given the fact that Lee Chong Wei has been World NO 1 for most of the time since the end of 2008 to 2014. It’s a strange logic behind the fact that some people only look at result of one tournament within a calendar year, rather than the overall performance throughout the year. Lin Dan was former World NO 1; that is no questioning about that. Certainly, before Superseries and current World Ranking system comes into existence, that is the year of 2007, Lin Dan was World NO 1 on and off. The last time he was World NO 1 was in the year of 2012; but Lee Chong Wei is the year-end World NO 1 for the year of 2012.

    Honestly, if Lee Chong Wei had won world title before but much less Superseries titles and much shorter career, he would be just another former world champion, but not necessarily an all-time great badminton player.
     
    blabl likes this.
  2. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    137
    Occupation:
    selfemploy
    Location:
    aberdeen
    I am a LD fan and I am also a fan of LCW. Each everyone of us entitle to his or her opinion. God know how many Olympic gold and world championship LCW would win if LD wasn't playing badminton. The facts are all in front of us. If you believe LCW is the best, then LCW is the best. To convince me LCW is the best, he has to win the next two Olympic.
     
  3. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    I have no intention to convince you that LCW is the best; neither do I believe that there is such thing as All-Time Best. All-Time Great badminton player is there to be seen; there is no need for me to make up any reasons for it. Every athlete is bound to retire at one stage. There will ALWAYS be new World NO 1 in the future. The question is how long he can remain there in such position. Lin Dan is the best male single player at 2008 Olympics and 2012 London Olympics; he is the winner after all. But I don't think you can use this result to justify his performance over the years or his result in other tournaments. Those things are not related.
     
  4. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    All it takes is merely an 8-month suspension to remove LCW from World NO 1 position. Then, it becomes an uphill battle within a year to regain such position. Age, illness, Injury, etc. are all factors that would change performance of an athlete. While we recognize that Lin Dan does a great job in maintaining a relatively long career compared with most other players, he is simply not the World NO 1 for the longest period of time.
     
  5. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    All athletes will eventually fade in history. But a generation of people who still lived may still fondly remember them for the matches they have played.
     
  6. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    137
    Occupation:
    selfemploy
    Location:
    aberdeen
    To compete and to compare are built into our DNA. Of course there are always exception. We even have machine compete with human in various forms. The all time best lists in sports or in other categories are here to stay whether you like it or not. The most beautiful woman, the best fighter, etc. There may be a player better than LD in the future. At this moment, he is better than anyone in the past and present.
     
    Justin L likes this.
  7. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    Let's agree to disagree. I simply do not agree the Olympic Games and World Championships are the only tournaments that matter. Hence, I do not agree that Lin Dan is currently the best in the past and present. I do agree that he is a good player with a number of achievements. The best player is the one who holds the top ranking, which is subject to change from time to time. The Great Player is those who are at the top of world of badminton for an extended period of time; in that regard, there is no questioning regarding the longevity of Lin Dan's career, just like Lee Chong Wei.
     
  8. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    You may look at http://bwfbadminton.com/players/. Of course, with the conclusion of Indonesia Open Superseries Premier, we all know that Chen Long's reign as World NO 1 come to an end, with Lee Chong Wei replacing him. Lee Chong Wei will remain World NO 1 at least until Summer Olympics; because Australia Open will be last Superseries held before Summer Olympics.
     
  9. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    137
    Occupation:
    selfemploy
    Location:
    aberdeen
    Career titles- LCW.63
    LD. 61


    Winning%- LD. 88
    LCW.84.5



    Head to head- 26-11 in favor of LD.
     
  10. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    Head-to-head is relatively meaningless. World Ranking only takes into account of recent tournament from the previous 52 weeks. head-to-head can go all the way back to 10 years ago.
     
  11. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    Winning ratio from the entire career is also meaningless. Because you only need to participate in more (10+) tournaments in a single calendar year to have a realistic world ranking.
     
  12. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    What really counts is whether you can win a title, presumably higher level, such as Superseries Premier, or reach further, such as final, semi final.
     
  13. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    137
    Occupation:
    selfemploy
    Location:
    aberdeen
    I learned something new, Olympic gold is not important. Head to head history is meaningless.
     
  14. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    You can play at highest level to beat top players; but also play at lower level to lose to lower-ranked players. You need to have consistently top level performance throughout the entire year to be World NO 1.
     
  15. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    Olympic gold is important, presumably the greatest honor for badminton player. It's just cannot be used as a realistic measurement of player's performance throughout a calendar year or entire career.
     
  16. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    It's just one tournament. Don't jump to conclusion and get ahead of yourself.
     
  17. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    Ng Ka Long has 100% winning ratio over LD. Do you think he is the best player right now?
     
  18. latecomer

    latecomer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes Received:
    137
    Occupation:
    selfemploy
    Location:
    aberdeen
    Would LCW be happier if he had won a Olympic gold. Would LCW be happier if the head to head ratio with LD is the other way around.
     
  19. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    LCW would be happier if he has 100% winning rate. He absolutely hates to lose. Realistically speaking, it's simply impossible. We have to accept the fact that Lin Dan was at once the best player in the world, as former World NO 1. In fact, he was the first NO 1 seed to win Olympic Games. But after 2008, even though Lin Dan had an edge over LCW in head-to-head record, he simply could not regain top rank, with or without LCW. Who was World NO 1 when LCW was suspended? It is Chen Long. When LCW was back on court, he was far from his best form. But slowly, he worked his way to regain the top rank.
     
    #59 thljcl, Jun 6, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  20. thljcl

    thljcl Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    Earth
    The annual winning ratio is meaningful, compared with career winning ratio. Lin Dan has only 75% winning ratio in 2015. That is the reality we are in. Also, unless he played on for another decade and actively participate in many tournaments, his winning ratio would simply not drop as much. But, such a career winning ratio was meaningless, because it did not reflect the present reality.
     

Share This Page