2016 YONEX ALL ENGLAND Open SSP - FINALS (13th March)

[pjswift]

Marin's behaviour in that match was totally unfathomable and can't be measured with WSX here - it is pretty deceitful of you to try to compare the 2.

Marin was at her 'ugliest' form of her career at that time - behaving like a bad loser after time she concedes a point. She would also scream loudly at her opponent (which is her trademark but worse); turn her back and walk to the back of the court instead of returning the shuttle properly within a reasonable timeframe. She would argue profusely with the umpire many times; displaying considerable disrespect.

On top of that, she would make rude and angry faces/body language at her opponent which was quite shocking to see on TV - quite sure the umpire caught that too. Never seen anything quite like that for a while I remembered saying to myself.

That match did changed her somewhat and she has improved seemingly; much to her credit.

There s nothing deceitful about comparing WSX with Marin. You see it that way because you believe CHN players can do no wrong and WSX is a CHN player.

Now let me show how WSX and Marin are similar and different:
1) Both yell during matches more to offend and disturb real opponents than to release tension. It s a tricky weapon because when they start to yell less, the alert opponent will know fatigue has set in. Energy is required to produce sound and they reckoned they can t afford to waste energy on a peripheral vocal weapon. Anyone else notice how WSX minimized sound energy usage against Nozomi?

2) Overall, WSX is a much, much gentler version of Marin in the yelling department. However , Marin is better than WSX in one way. Her serve routine is quick; WSX s serve ritual delays play when she uses it for thinking and recovery time. It s a real pain to watch her serve courtside.

I believe you miss the point about the red card. It s not the intensity of misconduct that matters. When Nozomi was ready and WSX constantly delayed play despite constant warning ( regardless of to WSX or both), the misconduct threshold s breached, hence the red card. As you said, Marin is better behaved now, probably because of the red card effect. Hopefully WSX learns not to give umpires any more tests in future.

 

[nokh88]

Snipped..
Hopefully WSX learns not to give umpires any more tests in future.

For any umpire to reach the highest echelon has to pass the WSX test.

 

[nilesh123]

For any umpire to reach the highest echelon has to pass the WSX test.

The real echelon would be to survive the BCers frenzy outrageous discussion (if they do care)

 

[nokh88]

The real echelon would be to survive the BCers frenzy outrageous discussion (if they do care)

Agree.

 

[littlebro]

I assume you meant the Asian Invitation Tournament in 1976 when Tang and Hou lost to 26-year-old Iie Sumirat, they were 34 years old and semi-retired. Tang during his prime 1963-75 never lost internationally, Hartono started winning AE from 1968 and had chance to play Tang a few times but somehow avoided it. The 26-year-old defending AE champion Kops got 5 and 0 points in two sets against Tang in 1965.

Tang Xianhu and Hou Jiachang are great players. However both lost to Indonesian MS #2 Iie Sumirat. But they have never played Indonesia #1, Hartono, and nothing we can do about it. Anyway Tang and Hou are few years seniors compared to Rudy.

Every era has its own star. Lin Dan is the star of our era. It's incredible he is capable of winning his sixth All England when he is 33.

 

[pcll99]

LD is a member of Baiyi. He is army officer. LXR too.

 

[kwun]

chill guys. don't fan the fire. it is not winter anymore.

 

[kwun]

Cai Yun has an article that analysed/summarize the AE final match by match from the technical point of view. very good read and provide a lot of insight from a very experience professional player. it is in Chinese though. I will try to translate it later today (but please don't stop you from doing it)

http://sports.qq.com/a/20160315/042333.htm

Here is what Cai Yun says about Nozomi (but not specific to the red card incident)

Apologize in advance for any translation errors.

Nozomi has a poor rhythm

Nozomi Okuhara is fun to watch.

Every time she enter/leave the court she bows, it is clear she is not directing that to the audience, she was paying tribute the badminton court! I like her ritual here, as no matter how much success we have achieved, the badminton court will forever be the foundation to the player and the shuttlecock, it is the source of happiness, deep in our heart when we first started.

She is a Indonesia lover, Indonesia's Taufik Hidayat and singles legend Susi Susanti’s style can be reflected through her. in fact, Kento Momota, too is the same. indicating that the Japanese team play is learning the Indonesian team style, as it is in line with their physique and thinking.

She has been employing something that hasn’t been done for a long time, poor rhythm (ed: not sure if poor is the right word to use, but that’s what Cai used). She favor having to land herself (stability), in order to break the rhythm of her opponent as the main goal. In other words, having shot placement choice is secondary, the timing of shot execution (in order to break opponent’s rhythm) and controlling the shuttle projectile is the ultimate goal.

During the semifinal against Marin, Marin’s high error rate came from this precise timing and shot execution, from Marin’s reaction, she was not able to react to it at all.

I don’t think Wang Shixian has any issue, she played very well, can control and shot are not soft, shows the solid fight that she normally produce.

 

[renbo]

I would suggest "variation of rhythm" (instead of 'poor rhythm').

 

[udin_udik]

I assume you meant the Asian Invitation Tournament in 1976 when Tang and Hou lost to 26-year-old Iie Sumirat, they were 34 years old and semi-retired. Tang during his prime 1963-75 never lost internationally, Hartono started winning AE from 1968 and had chance to play Tang a few times but somehow avoided it. The 26-year-old defending AE champion Kops got 5 and 0 points in two sets against Tang in 1965.

Avoided it? This is funny.

The Indonesian had played few times with Tang, Hou, Fang and friends during 60's in invitational matches both in Indonesia and China, the results were pretty even. But those who played are seniors like Tan Joe hok or Ferry. Rudy was junior back then.

Comparing Tang and Rudy was another funny idea, Tang was 7 years older. Tang was great but he was in another era and the political situation didn't allow him to compete internationally. But it such a stupid accusation calling Rudy avoiding to play them.

About Rudy raising too early in late 60's. Well Rudy was a junior in his first Major tour in All England in 1968, sent with many other seniors but somehow he managed to win it. He was 19.

 

[kwun]

I would suggest "variation of rhythm" (instead of 'poor rhythm').

hard to describe it. but I have had played people from Chinese national team before where it is impossible to even get to their clears because they have such a type of rhythm that easily destroys mine. sounds like magic but it is true.

 

[visor]

hard to describe it. but I have had played people from Chinese national team before where it is impossible to even get to their clears because they have such a type of rhythm that easily destroys mine. sounds like magic but it is true.

Pros have very deceptive strokes where their preparation for clear, punch clear, fast drop, slice, smash etc look exactly the same. As amateurs like us, we can't tell which shot is done until it has left their racket after some time.

And it is this variation in timing of shot execution (mentioned by Cai Yun) that Okuhara has that messes with her opponents.

 

[kwun]

Pros have very deceptive strokes where their preparation for clear, punch clear, fast drop, slice, smash etc look exactly the same. As amateurs like us, we can't tell which shot is done until it has left their racket after some time.

right. i think it goes a bit beyond that. they not only have total control of their shot execution, they made it in such a way that they will match it against your own rhythm by punching the shot out at the worth time for you.

an analogy will be someone playing piano and then someone else comes in and start clapping their hand at the wrong rhythm and throws off the piano players'.

easier said than done.

 

[visor]

right. i think it goes a bit beyond that. they not only have total control of their shot execution, they made it in such a way that they will match it against your own rhythm by punching the shot out at the worth time for you.

an analogy will be someone playing piano and then someone else comes in and start clapping their hand at the wrong rhythm and throws off the piano players'.

easier said than done.

Lol... You posted just as I was editing my previous post.

I added:
And it is this variation in timing of shot execution (mentioned by Cai Yun) that Okuhara has that messes with her opponents.

They can't split step and anticipate as easily against her.

Your piano and clapping analogy make perfect sense.

 

[udin_udik]

Here is what Cai Yun says about Nozomi (but not specific to the red card incident)

She is a Indonesia lover, Indonesia's Taufik Hidayat and singles legend Susi Susanti’s style can be reflected through her. in fact, Kento Momota, too is the same. indicating that the Japanese team play is learning the Indonesian team style, as it is in line with their physique and thinking

This is exactly what Susi said as well. She said Nozomi's game plan and physical stature reminds her of herself. I remember reading somewhere a european opponent of Susi commenting that playing her is like playing against a wall. And it what makes her lost because her 'rhythm of play' was broken.

I also see Kento's game was similiar to Ginting's and Ihsan's, in line with Taufik's. This doesn't surprise me as Kento's old coach ( Coaching him for around 5 years when he was junior) was an Indonesian that also coaches Ginting and Ihsan during 2014-2015.

 

[pcll99]

i think a tournament thread should talk about the following:

1. Discussion of techniques and strategy.

2. analysis of games, and

3. translation/report of what players/coaches have said

we should thank kwun for doing a wonderful job.

 

[kwun]

i think a tournament thread should talk about the following:

1. Discussion of techniques and strategy.

2. analysis of games, and

3. translation/report of what players/coaches have said

we should thank kwun for doing a wonderful job.

thanks! can't do it without you guys!

 

[kwun]

This is the only thing Cai Yun said about the red card:

I do not think the umpire's red card have any problems, because both Wang Shixian and the umpire understand her reason for taking such long walk. As for the so call “targeting the Chinese team” talks, it mostly stem from the fans misunderstanding of how the British normal reaction to “ungentlemanly conduct”. (ed: the British have stricter sense of conduct/manners)

 

[pcll99]

thanks! can't do it without you guys!

hopefully Google Translate will beat the best human translator one day.

 

[ssj100]

This is the only thing Cai Yun said about the red card:

Nice to see some good solid objectivity from China. Agree completely.