Yonex ALL ENGLAND 2021 : R/32-Final (Birmingham, 17-21 March)

Discussion in '2021 Tournaments' started by CLELY, Mar 17, 2021.

  1. Mark A

    Mark A Regular Member

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    LZJ's defence and attack were both a step up from Antonsen, and VA couldn't cope with either.
     
  2. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Lots of praises of LZJ from this one win. However, winning the AE has this strange ability to either make or break a player. The real question is, is it just a flash of glory (ala.... Hafiz, Gopichand), or will he have a more steady rise and consistency like LCW, Chen Long, Lin Dan, or even Momota?
     
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  3. keane_mark2

    keane_mark2 Regular Member

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    Momota and Axelson downed. We have a new contender for the throne. LZJ , i never noticed him before this devastation of top seeds.
     
  4. Cunning Linguist

    Cunning Linguist Regular Member

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    He's beaten #1 and #2 en route to the AE title - that is respectable in itself. He will have to follow up on this though, especially since this is really his first title and we are still in a pandemic with lots of players missing.

    Just 2 months ago, VA was the bee's knees and LZJ was talked about as the eternal talent that would never amount to anything. His 2021 results prior to this tournament have been disappointing, including an embarrassing 15-21, 4-21 by VA and a straight game loss to Kunlavut Vitidsarn just this month.
    With all due respect to the players, but having Brian Yang, HKV and Mark Caljouw as opponents in your AE draw is also not too bad. Which leaves the two games against KM and VA. He played well those and it is quite possible that the win against KM really elevated him. Birmingham Arena seems to be by far his favourite playground. Let's see how he does outside of it.
     
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  5. stanleyfm

    stanleyfm Regular Member

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    wow that sucks
    was it measured by VO2-max test?
     
  6. Martynas

    Martynas Regular Member

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    he was actually out of breath in every match when opponent was able to return his attack, and it happened very quickly, but in those Thailand events it happened very rarely since general level was quite bad, and even if it happened he was able to go through just by waiting/pushing the net play, so he really has either to adjust tactically or may be sacrifice explosiveness towards stamina, otherwise against top 5 players he will not be able to play 3 close sets.
     
  7. Vivek Bagadhi

    Vivek Bagadhi Regular Member

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    Whatever it be, but I think atleast I am blessed to be able to see his steep angle cross court smash the sound and form is simply amazing (which he didn't do many today I guess only 1)
     
  8. Vivek Bagadhi

    Vivek Bagadhi Regular Member

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    I had a question in mind though, have they removed the shot speed measuring device, they have stopped giving that stat, I was wondering what the speed of the smashes from LZJ would be? They have to be 400+ but the exact measures would have been great.
     
  9. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Yeah. Agree. He is a big dude with a lot of weight to carry around the court. I cannot even find an example of a player of that stature that I would call gracious in movement. Maybe that's just the physics of it.

    BTW, if you ever have the chance, check out how a baby giraffe (still at least 4-5 meters tall) move around the ground, in real life. Very smooth, light footed and gracious, almost floaty.
     
  10. Sundis

    Sundis Regular Member

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    I do not know the details, it was just something that Gill Clark mentioned.
     
  11. RichF

    RichF Regular Member

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    VA = 1.94m
    LZJ = 1.86m

    This is going to sound odd, but Viktor looks a bit underweight for his frame - wonder if that's a factor re. stamina.
     
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  12. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    He's definitely not underweight. Maybe you're getting distracted by his bony shoulders, his arms, his facial structure....but he's one of the most muscular MS players for sure. His upper body is much larger than LZJ, overall he must have almost 10kg on the guy, I actually wouldn't be surprised if it was even more. 9cm is a significant height difference which can add something between 5-10kg for men of comparable frame.

    Regarding the grace comments - it's probably the length of the legs that makes it look a bit less elegant. To me, he looks pretty good, especially his defence and half-dives are really good for that height. Compared to Bao Chunlai he's a ballerina in my book :D

    Being 1.95m tall really isn't an advantage in this sport, especially not in singles with all the turns and accelerations. I'm fairly impressed how he managed to work around it in so many regards. I wonder if I should also get a squat rack at home :D
     
  13. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    badminton is quite a fair sport. within a range of height, i'd say 160cm to 190cm. There isn't a clear advantage, as you move along the height range, you gain some and lose some. VA is able to make some really incredible steep and powerful smash, has long reach, but when he need to move, he need to move a lot more weight with higher central of gravity. On the other end of the spectrum, a 160cm guy will be very nimble but will have to take more steps and will have disadvantage on shot angles
     
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  14. ibelieveindevil

    ibelieveindevil Regular Member

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    Lzj 186/78
    Va 194/88
    Km 175/68
    CL 187/75
    LD 175/70
    Lcw 172/68
    AA 183/80
    CTC 180/78
    Ag 170/66
    Jc 179/75

    Can anyone recall any world class MS that's around the height of VA?
     
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  15. j4ckie

    j4ckie Regular Member

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    Bao Chunlai was around his height iirc. Achieved less than VA though. Sweet spot seems to be around the 1,75-1,80 mark based on champions so far, although that's to be taken with a grain of salt as there are many other factors going into it and not enough players to assure they all even out statistically.
     
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  16. r1cky_b3cks

    r1cky_b3cks Regular Member

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    we need to give time for LZJ to prove his consistency. great win for him, great play and hope this to continue and not just one tournament wonder.
     
  17. Cunning Linguist

    Cunning Linguist Regular Member

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    The talent pool of players 190cm+ is surely multitudes smaller ( :) ) than the one of players 170-180cm and badminton has never seen a tall athletic player with talent. I'm fairly certain if if guys like MJ, Wade, Kobe would play badminton there'd be no talk of "the sweetspot is 175-180".
     
  18. ibelieveindevil

    ibelieveindevil Regular Member

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    I jist checked, bao was 191/80. I will sort tha data and bmi out later to see if there is any trend
     
  19. ibelieveindevil

    ibelieveindevil Regular Member

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    Height Weight BMI
    VA 1.94 88 23.38
    BCL 1.91 80 21.93
    CL 1.87 75 21.45
    LZJ 1.86 78 22.55
    AA 1.83 80 23.89
    CTC 1.80 78 24.07
    JC 1.79 75 23.41
    LD 1.75 70 22.86
    KM 1.75 68 22.20
    LCW 1.72 68 22.99
    AG 1.70 66 22.84
    Average 1.81 75 22.87

    Cant seems to post a table but then, i trust you with your imagination.

    Anyway, all the players listed above fall within the healthy weight range of WHO, not surprising ... (BMI20-25). Anyway, this is just for fun and not to be taken too seriously.

    VA is probably one of the tallest players in modern MS history, he is on the heavier side, but certainly not the heaviest. CTC is the bulkiest with BMI at 24.07. Chinese players that tall like CL and BCL, have much lesser weight, and their BMI are among the lowest (theocratically speaking, this give longer reach, higher mobility, but put greater demand to the legs and stamina)

    Players below 1.75m (5' 9") seems to have a relatively constant BMI. The 2 most successful players in the world both has a very similar height and built.
     
    #719 ibelieveindevil, Mar 21, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2021
  20. baddiechan

    baddiechan Regular Member

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    In badminton it is awkward for taller players, especially with regards to the centre of gravity. To go further they need to slightly adjust more to accommodate everything they do besides the overhead smash and clears. The technique really needs to be on point or they risk injury with the added forces on their body, or their style needs to be more focused on longevity (Chen Long or Peter Gade come to mind). This adds up if you look at potentially 5-6 matches in a tournament that 3 sets every time, stress isn't just on muscles but also joints. Historically the tallest players have chosen doubles due to the power advantage and not having to cover the whole court.

    On the other hand shorter players are fewer but still show they can play at the top level in women's singles. We've yet to see world class MS with anyone under 169cm I believe, Ginting is 170 but it should be possible. I'm guessing it's a bias from organisations or players who don't see them as athletic enough. Take Yuta Watanabe as an example 167cm, before going pro he was a really successful junior singles player but switched to doubles because he didn't think he could be competitive with bigger and stronger opponents.
     
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