As many forum members would agree, Lu Lan, Jiang Yanqiao, Wang Lin, and Wang Yihan are not quite in the same league as Zhang Ning or XXF yet. But what about Zhu Lin? Winning a title by defeating both Pi Hongyan and Zhou Mi is no easy task. Can this be an indication that Zhu Lin is pretty much very close to being in the same league as Zhang Ning and XXF?
WBF should implement rule against this repeating behaviour, make it a one-tournament suspension for those players, it's just bad for this emerging sport.
Not quite. I believe that Zhu Lin is still is the same class as Lu, Jiang, Wang L and Wang YH but she would be the best of them all in terms of consistency (for now). Pi and Zhou aren't exactly the toughest opponents for the Chinese National team to beat. This is not to say that Zhu breezed through the tournament.
Thats the problem for sport...CHN , so far this year, has demonstrated many walk outs...I think they should play eventhough Du Jing/Yu yang will lose 5-21 or 0-21...just to satisfy the organizer....
Zhu Lin is by far more consistent than Lu Lan / Jiang Yanjiao / Wang Lin. She has won about 4-5 big tournaments in the last year. I think the main reason for her 'consistency' is that she's older than the other three (23 vs 21/21/19). XXF only became consistent after the Athens Olympics (when she's 22-23). I'm sure the rest of the Chinese contingent will come good eventually. I'm a bigger believer of Lu Lan / Wang Yihan than Wang Lin / Jiang Yanjiao though.
Zhu Lin's problem is that she's thought not talented. (Please note there is no clear definition for talent) Gong Ruina (born in 1981) and Zhou Mi were planed for Olympics 2008, and Zhang Ning (born in 1975, 6 years older than Gong Ruina) was supposed to be retired 7 years ago. Now Gong Ruina has been retired 3 more years, and Zhang Ning is still going to play next year for the Olympics. It's all because of Li YB's decision. Not only because Zhnag ning came from the same hometown as LYB, but also in China, after players/coaches retire from the national team, they have to go back to their own provinces. And also their living conditions and incomes are dependent on their provinces' authorities. Therefore, LYB has to do whatever to make his province happy. That's the reason he has to fully support Zhang Ning, Yu Yang, Du Jing those players from Liao Ning province, which is LYB's hometown. In order to play Zhang Ning, LYB has to retire Gong Ruina and Zhou Mi, even though they are the best generation for the 2008 Olympics. Even after retirement, Gong Ruina came back to defeat Zhang Ning, Xie Xinfang and Zhu Lin, and won the runner up in China national championship single events(lost only to Jiang Yanjiang in the final), and won all the matches in the team events and helped her team won the champion in the team event. Since there are so many good players (especially in women side) in China. So it's purely LYB's decision to make whoever the champion of the world. Li YB also admitted himself when he's back the Liao Ning province. He said even though he knew Zhang Ning was not in good form, but for the glory of Liao Ning, he played Zhang Ning in the Sudirman cup. Of course, any Chinese WS can win any other WS in the Sudirman competition. Now let's back to the original question. After LYB retired Gong RN and Zhou Mi, he had to use some younger players. Jiang YJ was the national champion, but she's regarded as lack of heavy weapons. Since the head coach for WS in China national team was from Jiang Su, another province. So Jiang YJ and Lu Lan (both from Jiang su) still join the national team under many objections. So Zhu Lin came out finally as the winner for several tournaments. The reason is simply because there are not many better ones. Zhang Ning is becoming older and older (think about that Gong Rui, 6 year younger, already retired 3 years ago); Xie Xingfan always has 2 problems (physically not strong enough and mentally not hungry enough for the victory); Jiang YJ does not have heavy weapons, Lu Lan is very inconsistent, Wang Lin and Wang Yihan are too young... Anyway, even though not given to many chances, Wang Yihan will be the next super star, she's very talented in my opinion.
Zhou Mi and Gong Ruina also had a bad record against Mia Audina (the main thorn in the Chinese backside). That may also have hasten their departure.
I don't think LYB still keeping ZN because she come from the same province of LYB. How funny and baseless. THe only reason ZN still play for China is because she is a very good player. Of course, when she meet her teammates Zhou Mi, Gong Rui Na and XXF, she lost more than win with them. But that of course a very funny reason to retired her. Why? Because easy, during Olympic 2000, she had better record against any other WS players except her own team mates. She had better records against Camilla Martin, Mia Audina, Wang Chen and other ex China players. Compare to Gong Rui Na who had worst record against Camilla Martin or Zhou Mi against Mia etc. Thats the only reason why LBY keep her. After Olympic, looks like Gong Rui Na and Zhou Mi did not had any desire to play for China anymore. Its a weird decision if LYB wanted them to retire cause at that time , 2005, China only had 4 top WS. XXF, ZN, ZM and GRN. Thats why after ZM and GRN retired, LYB send lots and lots of Chn young WS to play in lots of events. From Zhu Lin, Lu Lan, JYJ, WYH , WL etc. And they now had Zhu Lin who play quite consistent.
Another example why coach of all countries will never EVER retire his players based on how well they play against their temmates. Example: Taufik H and Sony Dwi K. Sony had better match record against Taufik. So did Indonesia coach will retire Taufik first than Sonny? Of course not! Indonesia coaches and officials will try to made Taufik play as long as possible cause he is still the best player we had right now. He had a better record against any player in the world except for BCL and LD. If Taufik still had desire to play badminton, I boldly predict Sonny will retire first than Taufik. If Taufik still want to play after Beijing Olympic.
Back to Thai Open, China had very good results. Only enter 2 MS, 2 WS, 1 MD , 2 WD and 1 MX they had four titles with 1 MS semi final, 1 Men Doubles QF and 1 WD Runner Up. If all the world wanted to at least give China a fight into any team events, they should at least only let China win 1 title from WD cause China only send their two top WD here. Indonesia MS doing quite okay with Tommy and Simon but very terrible in MD. 4 pairs all lost in first and second round.
Of course I also disagree with China decision not to play WD final cause they had next big tournament next week.
hcpoirot, I have to say that you know very little about China badminton. Zhang Ning was not the best, or even not among one of the best when LYB decided keep her instead of retiring her. Zhang Ning was the worst among Chinese team that time after Ye ZY, Gong ZC, Gong RN, and Dai Yun, and even after Wang Chen. Please ask Wang Chen, the victim of CHN team politics, don't suffering from your oversimplification. It is more ridiculous for you to claim that "Gong Rui Na and Zhou Mi did not had any desire to play for China anymore (your words)". If your level of understanding is like that, you have to develop some common sense. As a professional player, nobody wants to terminate their career as early as possible. Not Gong Ruina, not Zhou Mi, neither Ye ZY, neither Gong Zhichao. Even Ye Zhaoying and Gong Zhichao was forced to retire (kind of fired) when they were young and at their peak time. Both of them still played for their province for several years. Why they "did not have any desire play for China anymore" while play for their province inside China without any fame and any money? All those players got fired, or you can argue it's a retirement. Of course, all players have ups and downs. Li YB will never say firing players based on politics. No coach would say that. But he would certainly pick the down time of the player, or small injuries, to ask the player to retire. Sometimes, even there was no reason could be found, he would say it's for the space for the training of young players (such as firing Gong ZC after Olympics). You cannot understand them just based on what they said. So, It's obvious that it's your statement "How funny and baseless"(your words), instead of mine. If you can ask any insiders, you will probably find what I said.
2cents, at least this theory of your is not whacky as your previous one about BCL playing bad because his team mates steal his cellphone just before bcl's critical match coaches have their reason to keep and fired certain players. As for LYB, (1) he will keep whoever that he thinks can be most successful against china (badminton) foes. (2)Yes, gong rui, zhou mi, wang chen have world beater quality but u forgot the second most important quality, obedience to the coach, ie a good solidier. No matter how great u r, if u have fiction with the national coach, your future isn't bright. LYB has his plan, if u disrupt or hard to work with under his plan, your days are numbered. This applies to real world job relationship with your boss as well. To refute your point that gong rui is better than zhang ning at their prime, look who beat who in tournament that counts, not internal competiton. http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10984
typo: *if u have friction with the national coach* In 2003 WC, ZN beat G. Rui In 2004 olympic, ZN gold, MA silver, zhou mi bronze. Gong R. lost to zhou mi. If GR was in great form, why she can't even get bronze even tho she was seeded #1
Zhou Mi's head to head against Mia was not bad at all. Actually Zhou Mi won 6 times against Mia and lost only 5 times. Zhou Mi's lost mainly from early time before 1999. But after that, especially during 1999-2003. Zhou Mi won 5 times in a row without any lose. Zhou Mi : Mia = 6:5 As Gong Ruina, she has even better head to head record against Mia, it's Gong RN's advantage with 5:3 leading. Gong RN : Mia = 5:3 Now let's look at Zhang Ning's record against Mia, before firing Gong RN and Zhou Mi, Zhang Ning was tied with Mia as 4-4. Zhang Ning : Mia = 4:4 And more interesting, in Swiss Open 2004 (just before Gong and Zhou's phase out), Zhang Ning lost to Mia, but Gong RN defeated both Camilla Martin and Mia. Especially, in the final, Gong RN beat Mia 2:0 and the 2nd game was even 11:0. What a great form of Gong RN before letting her go. At swiss open 2004 just before her phase out, Zhang Ning lost to Mia but Gong RN defeat Camilla and Mia (11:0) to win the title. Zhang Ning's final head to head against Mia is 5-4, with another win after Gong RN, Zhou Mi retired. It doesn't make sense to check the head to head against Camilla Martin because that time Camilla was retired also. Even though, I remember both Zhou Mi and Gong RN did pretty good against Camilla just before they phased out. For example as I mentioned above, in Swiss open 2004. In a word, it's purely politics. One excuse for Zhou Mi was her small injury of her left calf, but after she's fully recovered, she's refused to play for China team any more. So hers ending at national team was so miserable. Gong RN got a big celebration from the team to thank her for her great contribution though, it's kind of conclude her great adventure in the national team, but it's still against her willing. She was treated as a hero when she's fired, which was the only difference between her and Zhou Mi.
That's of course one of the reason. But it is also one of political reasons. That's especially true for Wang Chen, because she's fired directed from her refusing taking Li YB's orders. Please check my previous post for more details.
I tend to agree with 2cents, I recall reading the Chinese article(may be from Sina, not very sure though) similar to what 2cents have mentioned. Regardless who had better records against one another, these Chinese women are all fantastic players and most of them were forced to quit due to LYB, no question about that. It's all discussion here, no need to get too personal among us. LYB can play his type of politics as long as Zhang Ning continues to win and we have to give LYB credit as Zhang Ning does deliver so far and we can't say the same thing if Zhou Mi, Gong Zhichao, Ye Zhouying, Gong Ruina were the chosen ones. Anyway, this is the good problem for team China for having such a vast pool of talents
