Should coaching be allowed between points?

[visor]

If we're so concerned about pros wasting or stalling for time in between points, then there're a lot more other significant time wasters to vote to get rid of than a quick 1-2 sec coaching pointer.


Like the 2-3 secs of communication between doubles players between each and every rally. Really, do they need to chat about tactics in the middle of a game? Don't they discuss this in practice and training time already?


Like that pat of hands between doubles players before each and every rally, that used to be only done by Boe/Mo, but now seems like every pair has picked up this time wasting habit.
That's easily 2 secs right there.


Or that hand signalling behind the back that the front server does to secretly indicate his serve selection to his partner, each and every rally. Worst culprits are MJ and ZYL, who already take an interminably long time to serve; so from the time of their serve signal to the actual service delivery, the receiver's legs are probably starting to fall asleep.
That's easily 3-5 secs there.


Or what about that walking around off court to flick sweat off the face, after each and every rally, or worse yet, to blow the nose.
That's some 3-5 secs there.


Or that 5-10 secs going around the court kicking and scrubbing their shoes at imaginary drops of sweat at various spots on the mat.


I'm sure some of you can think of more time wasters than what I've listed...

 

[renbo]

the question about coaching between points, and even more between games, is not about time wasting (in my eyes), but interference in the confrontation between the two sides.

 

[|_Footwork_|]

I wonder what people would say, if continous and fast play was enforced and the quality of the rallies would decline drmatically. Let's face the fact: Long and high quality rallies as we see them in men's singles nowaday are only possible if you allow the players to settle in between rallies. Without those breaks, more unforced errors and shorter rallies are the obvious result. You may decide...

 

[renbo]

That is true. Thereshould be a clear rule about this "continuous play". Beside, the players often "towel down' during the games, which is against the rules.
Coaching is different. Delay the match because of exchanges between players and coaches are not allowed by umpires.
What sprung this thread was coaches that could - or not - call the shuttle in or out to their players.
For the ones that think it is ok to do so, there is this question : do you think it is all right too for the coaches to shout " leave it" when they see its long, or "it's in" when they think so?

 

[pcll99]

http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=558308&dl=1

I have a few observations of the rules on instant review:

(1) The decision to challenge is to be made by the player(s). If player(s) consult his or their coach beforehand, then I don't think it can be regarded as the player's or the players'.
(2) The challenge must be made "immediately". Consulting your coach before challenging clearly would not be regarded as immediate in my own view.
(3) However, the rules say the challenge is to be made by a "player/pair". It is arguable that the decision to challenge can be made by the "pair", ie collectively. I would interpret that to mean a player may consult his or her partner so long as the challenge is made immediately.

 

[renbo]

Well said.

 

[Yuzo64]

http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file.aspx?id=558308&dl=1

I have a few observations of the rules on instant review:

(1) The decision to challenge is to be made by the player(s). If player(s) consult his or their coach beforehand, then I don't think it can be regarded as the player's or the players'.
(2) The challenge must be made "immediately". Consulting your coach before challenging clearly would not be regarded as immediate in my own view.
(3) However, the rules say the challenge is to be made by a "player/pair". It is arguable that the decision to challenge can be made by the "pair", ie collectively. I would interpret that to mean a player may consult his or her partner so long as the challenge is made immediately.

Don't see what's troubling you here:
1 - The decision is ultimately taken by the player: getting his coach's opinion is fine, he just gets the last call (i'm guessing this rule is here to prevent some kind of abuse by coaches, such as overreacting to a bad call)

2- Immediately, is, IMO, to be taken as "before the next point is played", or in such cases, "before you take the interval break". This is to avoid challenges after the game when they see the replay on television, i presume.

3- Wouldn't you say that a coach and a singles player form a pair, in many regards?

 

[pcll99]

Did you read the rules? If not, here it is:

"2.1 The challenge must be made immediately after the shuttle has landed and the call made."

Don't see what's troubling you here:
1 - The decision is ultimately taken by the player: getting his coach's opinion is fine, he just gets the last call (i'm guessing this rule is here to prevent some kind of abuse by coaches, such as overreacting to a bad call)

2- Immediately, is, IMO, to be taken as "before the next point is played", or in such cases, "before you take the interval break". This is to avoid challenges after the game when they see the replay on television, i presume.

3- Wouldn't you say that a coach and a singles player form a pair, in many regards?

 

[Stealthking]

I say let them coach from sidelines and do whatever else they want unless it wastes time. Quite honestly, its the reason I've gotten bored of Tennis. It is such a sterile environment. The umpires are the biggest waster of time there with the regular calls for .... "Quiet Please".

In badminton, I feel that by allowing coaching, we are getting the best game possible physically, tactically and mentally. I am sure that in the heat of battle, most instructions are lost on a player and they will instinctively do what they do best but having it re-enforced by their coaches gives us all a more exciting game....

 

[renbo]

Coaches in tennis are private coaches. Coaches in Badminton are national coaches. What you get is not "more exiting games" (where have you been the last 15 years?) but more standardized play. Badminton is less and less pleasant to watch.
The needs of badminton, I believe, is less national involvment, which block a real professional badminton to emerge, and more individual involvment.

 

[wahchai305]

i was helping with lines judging in the recent star oz badddy open superseries.
at times with the coach(es) sitting next to me courtside. i can see the value(s) SOME coaches
can give to their players. the coach for the chinese WD would have been beneficial to her players.
i didnt detect her trying to delay or interrrupt the flow of the match.
some other coaches....their abusive/language would have been negative influence.

 

[visor]

i was helping with lines judging in the recent star oz badddy open superseries.
at times with the coach(es) sitting next to me courtside. i can see the value(s) SOME coaches
can give to their players. the coach for the chinese WD would have been beneficial to her players.
i didnt detect her trying to delay or interrrupt the flow of the match.
some other coaches....their abusive/language would have been negative influence.

Cool, tks for your input!

Btw, which country were the abusive coaches from? Can't imagine why they would want to negatively impact their own players.

 

[CantSmashThis]

My answer is yes/no.

I don't mind coaching when it's not disrupting the flow of the match, a quick pointer or something, but it shouldn't delay the game(technically it's not supposed to). So more strict enforcement of that. I want to see quicker matches instead of like 20-30 seconds between each point unless the rallies start getting long and the match getting intense, then there's some leeway. As a spectator, I lose interest in the match quickly that way.

 

[wahchai305]

Cool, tks for your input!

Btw, which country were the abusive coaches from? Can't imagine why they would want to negatively impact their own players.

this being an open forum, i rather desist from naming them.
overall, it is always interesting picking up on their insights on the evolving game.
repeatedly i have to remind myself to fully concentrate on my task.

 

[visor]

I want to see quicker matches instead of like 20-30 seconds between each point unless the rallies start getting long and the match getting intense, then there's some leeway. As a spectator, I lose interest in the match quickly that way.

That's where instant slow mo replays of important rallies from different angles can make it more interesting and more involving for the viewers.

All England broadcast is best for that imo. They fill the in between time with that. Allows us to appreciate the incredible finesse and speed involved.

 

[visor]

this being an open forum, i rather desist from naming them.
overall, it is always interesting picking up on their insights on the evolving game.
repeatedly i have to remind myself to fully concentrate on my task.

Tks, appreciate that.

 

[freedelivery]

BWF laws of badminton are farcical at best and the interpretation of those rules by officials leave a lot to be desired. Leniency should not be a given, these are professional players who represent the pinnacle of the sport. As for coaching between points...surely it is in direct contradiction to the law

16..4.1 Under no circumstances shall play be delayed to enable a player to recover strength or wind or to receive advice.

especially when you see players wandering around the rear of the court speaking to their coaches between points.

 

[wahchai305]

umm, its a bit strong saying this.
at the recently completed oz superseries, i thought the umpires mostly will caution the players
who wander toward the seated coach.
you, sir/madam, is a bit economical in you quoting the rules of badminton....
further on in the rules, there is the one -

15.5.1 Only when the shuttle is not in play (Law 15), shall a player be permitted to
receive advice during a match.

 

[freedelivery]

16.5.1

Point taken. But what constitutes not in play?

The period between when the shuttle is on the floor to when it is picked up or the point between when the player(s) feel they are ready to resume play because they have got the advice they want?

The rules are too loosely defined and it seems with each ratification become more self-contradicting in what it is trying to achieve.

I bring to attention the recent women's doubles bronze medal match at the Commonwealth games, English coaches heckling the umpire, trying to influence him to to warn the opposition for time wasting*? I don't ever recall this happening before coaching between points was introduced?

* just because someone else does it better!

 

[kelana]

Just notice this poll.

Coaching in interval should be allowed. Indeed badminton should allow one or two time out calls within each match such as in volleyball and table tennis.

And moreover, badminton is not tennis, some members here keep on making references from tennis world to be adopted. Just remember they are two entirely different sports and having different characteristics. To my guess the fans of the two sports do not much intersect. I may support such copycat if the commercial world (esp. giant corporations in the banking & financial sectors as the main sponsors of tennis tournaments) will first pour into badminton the same amount of money... otherwise just forget the disillusion of badminton having to imitate tennis in order to be granted the same money reward and sponsorship as generous as tennis as well as the time & space slots of MSM coverages ...I said it a couple of times in BC and will repeat it again briefly, tennis, golf, and few other propped elites are having the generous bucks because these branches are the chosen sport showcases of the current world order thus being elevated to their present positions, other sports may only dream but just won't come near in term of the bucks, as well as the mainstream media coverages, so please do not spoil the badminton intricacies and beauty chasing the shadow ghost!

Popularity and Wide Acceptance vs Money and Media coverage are akin to chicken and egg...it's a matter of one's belief and perception which one comes first!

PS: I'd love to see a poll of a more urgent action from its world body about the necessity to OVERHAUL the current outdated SERVICE RULE.