question about split step drill(s) with drill partner, spotting mistimings

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by ralphz, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Hi

    I'm interested in practising the split step.

    i'm wary of the issue that if I mistime it or don't do it right then I could be slower to the shuttle and i'm not great at the split step myself and it'd be good if a friend can watch when i do it and notify me if I timed it wrongly.. or did it wrongly.

    I spoke with a friend that is pretty good with the split step himself, and he said we could try , but the problem is that if he is hitting a shuttle to me, he can't observe what i'm doing e.g. he hits a shuttle for me to do a net shot on my left, he'd normally be looking at the shuttle as he makes contact. So what should be do that would enable him to observe my split step? A thought was that he might sometimes be able to try to feed me one while watching me but maybe once in a while, but it's hard to do..I guess 'cos normally when you hit a shuttle you watch the shuttle when your racket makes contact with it

    Another thought was that if I get there slower that may be something I or he could notice, but then if it's a fraction of a second, that may be hard for a human to spot(not sure how noticeable half a second would be, but a 10th would be very hard to spot).. It would be noticeable if it's a second difference.. but for fractions it becomes perhaps a question mark

    Another thought was that if I arrive later to the shuttle than without a split step then clearly my split step was off.. But the issue there is that the feeder would have to feed them to the same spot and he figured that'd be difficult to see.

    Of course we can make a video and I can watch that with him and then it'd be easier to see..

    But in the session itself, how can the feeder(who also is skilled at split step), get some measure of things, so as to give me feedback?

    Thanks
     
    #1 ralphz, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
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  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Multi shuttle feeds.

    The feeder carries a row of shuttles in his arm (12 to 16) and throws the shuttle one at a time by hand.

    He can throw the shuttles and watch your feet to see if you the split step. If you do it to his satisfaction then he can increase the difficulty to throwing to two areas of the court. Naturally, after you play the shuttle , you have to go back to the base position.
    Just as you get return to the base position, he throws another shuttle to repeat the split step process.

    Then increase the difficulty again by randomisation which two areas he will throw to.

    The difficulty can be stepped up more by him increase the speed of his arm throwing the shutttle.

    even further difficulty can be introduced by him using body or arm movements to disguise where he will throw the shuttle.

    You need about 16 shuttles to do a continuous routine because near the last ones, the player gets a bit tired and unfocused. The player then needs to concentrate more on the footwork.

    Since this is an exercise on footwork, the player doesn’t need to worry about quality of their stroke. Split step and getting to the shuttle is the important thing.
     
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  3. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Thanks.. On a related note. Suppose i'm near the back so I guess the split step is a bit higher off the ground, and they'd be using their racket there rather than a hand feed. I guess they'd have to be able to feed each shuttle with the racket without watching their racket make contact with the shuttle? ('cos they'd be watching my feet)

    Would I time the split step to land when I hear the sound of their racket make contact with the shuttle(In which case I have to start the split step before that)?

    Or would I do the split step the moment I hear the sound of their racket on the shuttle (Or is that too late)?

    Also, I know that the sound that is made when the racket hits a shuttle, can be distorted on a video clip.. does the time of the sound shift noticeably at all?

    Should the sound even be a cue for anything re split step?
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    If you are near the back, the trainer can still use a hand feed. Combine it with a shadow stroke overhead clear in one of the rear corners first , come back to the base and split step at the hand feed.

    Unless you feeder is experienced at feeding using the racquet and using peripheral vision, it will be hard at first.

    Time your split step to when you see the feeder strike the shuttle on the strings.
     
    #4 Cheung, Mar 9, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  5. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Of course, one isn't going to time it to anything else,

    But a spit step has a beginning middle and end.

    I'm asking specifically, do you land when they make contact, so begin the split step before?

    If the shuttle has reached your side of the court / passed the net, by the time you land your split step then (assuming you didn't go too high off the ground), does it mean the split step was too late?

    Do you begin the spit step before the sound?
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    If " of course", why the repeat the question on the sound of the shuttle on the racquet?

    It's actually up to how comfortable you feel. If your friend has a good split step, he will be the best one to copy.
     
  7. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    Because I wasn't clear on what your direct answer to that is, or if you had one. Even here when I asked a specific question your answer was "It's actually up to how comfortable you feel." and to copy the guy that's good at it. So now I know that maybe you don't have a specific answer to it other than depends on how you feel or perhaps on whose style of split step you are learning. I had to make some more specific questions to you to establish that was your position though!

    Some people may have very specific answers like perhaps that you have to start before the sound, and land at the sound. And to start at the sound and land after, is too late. And that if you land once the shuttle is over the net already it's too late. I wanted to see if you had thoughts re those specifics, or if you don't. And it looks like you don't. But I don't know that until I give you some specific questions. And if you don't answer them directly then it's not so obvious what your position is. Your last post is the most direct answer you've given, I see you say depends on how you feel or whose split step you are copying.
     
    #7 ralphz, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  8. Ouchie

    Ouchie Regular Member

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    If the point of a split step is to prepare yourself for a movement then you need to coordinate it so you are primed and ready to move at the exact moment in time you know what that movement will be. Not too early, not too late, just right...

    When to initiate a split step will vary based on how appropriate it is to be eager or cautious. It will depend on the opponent/feeder and how they play.

    So, when will you know when to start a split step? The opponent/feeder could be very predictable so you could afford to start earlier. They could be really deceptive so you have to wait until you know what shot has been played.

    The answer is not to start moving until you are sure of where you need to move to and therefore work back from there allowing time for the split-second it takes to perform a split step. How quickly before or after striking a shuttle can you be sure of where the shuttle is going? Different shots have different movements that make them more or less easy to read. So, again, the answer is related to your eagerness or caution based on the attitude of the feeder.
     
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  9. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Perfect answer - my opinion is that you should train to split step as the feeder strikes the shuttle - this is the earliest you will be able to begin a split step. You could begin it earlier, but then you'll be limited in elongation of the split step.

    You can elongate the split step itself, but only to a point before the muscles lose their priming benefit. Therefore, the earlier you begin your split step, the earlier you MUST finish the split step.

    You end the split step as soon as you are sure of where the shuttle is moving. Therefore, if you begin your split step too early and elongate it as much as possible, you may have to move off before you know where the shuttle is going (or lose the benefit of having primed muscles = slow retrieval).

    Therefore, ideally you begin split step on the racquet strike and you end it when you are sure. If you are anticipating your opponent correctly, you can split step/move before they have even hit the shuttle, but that is not advised for training. It's not advised to begin split step any later than the shuttle strike, but do note that there is a slight difference between when you expect the shuttle to be struck, and when it is actually struck (otherwise, deception would not be half as useful as it is ;) )
     
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  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    It's a lot of references to the sound for an 'of course'.

    Let's move on. Without seeing a video of the motion, the answer is unfortunately going to be a rather vague. A lot will depend on the footwork pattern, the feeding and exactly what sort of problem you have.

    How do we know if you have a timing problem, a foot placement problem, a balance problem or muscle weakness problem or any combination of those?

    Since we can only describe the situation, you have a great person in front of you to give you visual feedback and learn from. We don't know at what point he starts or lands his split step but it would be a good start by you also looking at his timing.

    Note, for his feeding, I originally described for him to do hand feeding. You correctly identified it would be difficult for him to split his concentration. I simplified it to a useful exercise that can be made extremely demanding.
     
    #10 Cheung, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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  11. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I did not ask you any of those questions. I would not expect you or anybody to answer that, from what I said, so why are you writing like I expect you to answer those questions and then telling me you can't answer those? I know it is not possible. I don't expect you to, and didn't ask that.

    You gave a nice answer re the feeder. I imagine perhaps they can learn to hit it with the racket without watching.

    As it's not done in a rally i.e. they don't have to hit something I hit to them, so it is perhaps a learnable skill for a person feeding to hit without watching where they contact it, or while looking elsewhere or focussing their look elsewhere.

    DarkHiatus addressed the specifics of my question best IMO.. , And he didn't need a video to do it, as it was a general question, in the sense that it had nothing to do with me in particular, and he understood that, as did Ouchie. DH kind of built on Ouchie's answer(which also understood that I was asking a general question in the sense of it being not specific to me)..

    I will experiment with starting the split step a bit before the contact.. and , where necessary, elongating it to the extent that it is possible and necessary to elongate it.. it's an interesting concept DH mentioned there.. I like it.
     
    #11 ralphz, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  12. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    To get better, get a good appreciation of why you are not good at the split step.

    :)
     
  13. ralphz

    ralphz Regular Member

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    I know what it takes to improve and I am improving all the time.

    There are many things I do outside of BC to get better.. What I ask here helps inform that and is just one input into my training. (A great input it is, but it isn't the only input).

    In a few of the club's I have played at I have been told that I have improved so much, and in some that I have improved the most out of everybody, even a picky club and that is even at clubs with only players that are intermediate and above. I have improved from being absolutely rubbish, to being in a few doubles tournaments often getting to the quarter finals, and losing to county level players. I often play at clubs that only accept players that are intermediate upwards. And they test members before accepting them. I have had goals of reaching a level whereby I'd get accepted into certain badminton clubs that I would not have been able to get into in the past. And I've met those goals.. A lot of the members at BC are better players than me.. and I'm not claiming to be a great player by any means.. but what I am saying is that as to my improvement , I have improved loads. So I am what doing it takes and what is required to improve. I ask myself the basic questions and investigate them, not just intricate ones.

    The guy that introduced me to lots of badminton clubs, and considers themselves a badminton addict and was way better than me, has told me that now I move faster than him.. (and I'm still doing things to get faster).

    Questions I ask here help inform what I do to improve. But are one piece of it. They are often very specific but that doesn't mean that outside of that particular question, I am solely focussed on that and not on the other things required to improve. My training is quite broad.

    Thanks
     
    #13 ralphz, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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