Next AGM Brings Possible New Scoring System & More

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by CantSmashThis, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    the FAQs, released by BWF in February 2018, was in fact a harbinger of the inevitable defeat in the AGM:

    http://system.bwf.website/documents...al/0. FAQs - Enhancing Badminton's Future.pdf

    • Why do we want to make a fundamental change to our sport when we are in a period where we are being very successful?
    • Will the sport become very attacking and frantic in nature and lose some of its tactical variety and beauty?
    • Will it be difficult for players and countries to change their physical preparation to adapt to the new scoring (unknown nature of the consequences of the change)?
    • Will six months of the scoring system prior to the start of the Olympic Qualifying period be sufficient?
    • Have top players been consulted and are they persuaded it is a good change?
    • Will there be a guarantee that more (shorter) games will create more excitement (previous experience showed that games were lost for tactical reasons therefore diffusing any tension in the match)?
    • Will the physical nature of badminton be reduced, thus adversely affecting the spectacular nature of our sport?
    • Would it not be a disadvantage for badminton that different rules are used (scoring, service etc.) at different levels of the sport?
     
  2. Master

    Master Regular Member

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    That FAQ released on May 8, 2018 as my posting here. I belive that it's a strategy to promote and make promotion about score changing become bigger and bigger than ever. But still, it can't handle the majority of their members.

    The vote ended with almost 50-50 result. 6 votes different each other. The need 39 more votes to win the score changing.

    A total of 252 votes were cast by the BWF membership, with 129 votes in favour of changing the scoring format while 123 votes went against the motion. A total of 168 votes would have been necessary for the scoring system to be changed. A related proposal to reduce on-court coaching and introduce time-outs was subsequently withdrawn given its integration with the scoring-system innovation.
     
  3. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I'm actually a little glad this didn't go through. One thing at a time. Service height thing comes first.
     
  4. Master

    Master Regular Member

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    If the time-outs & reduce on-court coaching were separately removed, I think the voters could be more on changing points side.
     
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  5. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Yeah, they probably should've been voted on separately.

    Maybe I'm on the less popular side here, but I think on court coaching should be reduced greatly. Time outs are a mixed bag, sometimes players take too many liberties, sometimes the umpires need to remove a certain stick from a certain somewhere.
     
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  6. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Similar to the scoring system, I believe there is a difference in what's best for high-level badminton and what's best for juniors and hobbyist players:

    As a spectator, I want speedy games, and gain insights into the player's strategy during the pauses (intervals + in between sets). Hence, my preferred rule would be to eliminate on-court coaching except during the intervals. Maybe BWF thinks it's not logistically feasible to separate the coaches far enough so that they don't give advice in between rallies. In that case, I think no coaching (except during the timeout) is indeed the best rule for spectators.

    But as a player and a coach, I think on-court coaching is very beneficial for junior players of any level. For one, at the level I'm playing at, team games are really the only opportunity to get coaching on my game - I simply don't have a coach during any matches. It is similar for many junior players I see: With good coaching, they gain insights in what to look for and how to analyze the game - although one could certainly make the case that remote-control coaching (where a coach gives detailed instructions without explaining why) may be detrimental to the tactical abilities of the kids.

    And as an umpire, I worry about truly separating the coaches and players in small halls. Especially when the coach is a parent, I can certainly imagine the player quickly going to the stands (which is allowed during pauses) to get something from their bag and the coach giving them a couple of now illegal quick tips.
     
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  7. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    I see why you want junior players to have coaching, but I think this varies from place to place. Parents are *awful* for coaching during games here, absolutely untenable. I've had junior players complain that they played in a local tournament, and their opponents were constantly coached on where to aim/hit during the match.

    It's entirely unfair, and as they're juniors, they don't really have the sway to raise anything over it. It's intimidating for them to call someone to complain their opponent's parents are coaching during the game. I think that's a larger discipline issue though. Too many parents trying to live vicariously through their child's success over other kids, they're willing to borderline cheat for it.
     
  8. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    I'm not sure I understand the situation: Why is the opposing side complaining about bad coaching from the parents?

    Or is this coaching happening during the rally, i.e. illegal under current rules? If so, then this is for the umpire to deal with.

    If there is no umpire, I would expect the opposing coach to have a quick word with the parent in question, and if that does not help, contact the tournament control, which I'd expect to very quickly institute an umpire and somebody with the referee role having an eye on the parent in question, at least at an official tournament.

    Or are you talking about privately organized tournaments? At my private tournaments, I certainly aspire to do the same as above, and would quickly remove the offending coach from the court.

    That being said, while I always read about bad parents coaching, I find the quality of coaching parents decent here in Germany, NRW - although this may be skewed, because I mostly see national-level tournaments. Some parents even have entry-level coaching certifications.
     
  9. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    During the game, not necessarily during the rally. Not all of these kids have their parents with them, some drop them off etc.
     
  10. speCulatius

    speCulatius Regular Member

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    I concur at least for tournaments lower than national level, but I do see a tendency of a correlation between the quality of coaching and the quality of the tournament... It's less parents at better tournaments trying to coach though as well.
    I do have some problems with parents coaching, although I'm optimistic that there are some parents out there to whom this does not apply.
    • Parents like to overestimate the abilities of their children
    • At the same time, they underestimate the opponents abilities
    • Even if they are realistic about this, they often want their child to perform better than at the last tournament
    • This can lead to too much pressure on the child
    • Considering the different roles of a coach (always looking for mistakes/ ways to improve, analytical) and a parent (support, caring, emotional), it's hard for the parents to play both roles and probably even harder for the kids to differentiate between those roles in different environments
    This is why we try to always send a coach to our kids' official tournaments. The parents will be more quiet and if needed, there is someone to get some distance between the parents and the children after right the game.
    This is another reason why we do that that. They learn a lot when you let them. Talking about it after the game also does help.
    Furthermore, it becomes normal for them to receive coaching and to analyze their and their opponents game and they'll start to try coaching their badminton buddies as well. You'll see eleven year old girls walk to their friends during intervals and try to give advice and if they have an idea what to say to improve the game, it most often is correct, although it often focuses on one aspect only and will probably not be the most efficient advice, but hey... They are eleven! Our older kids do the same, but they seem to start to feel confident enough to do it somewhere around the age of ten.
     
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  11. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    Whether the parents stay or go during the matches, I'd expect every half-decent club (and all states and national federations) to send out enough coaches that basically all matches are coached by somebody.

    If players do not have coaches and are intimidated by the mere presence of coaches, that's a serious deficiency of their club in both organization and training. The player (or the parents) should ask their club to organize coaches, and failing that, switch to a better club.
     
  12. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Maybe where you are, sure, but here it's not common. It's usually parents if anyone. Even at a county level, the kids rarely have coaches at the side lines. Honestly, this is how it is in the UK. I'm sure @Cheung or @MSeeley could tell you.

    If it's a school match or university match, you might have the team coach go with them.

    Anything else, it's usually training partners, friends etc.
     

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