Help with Stroke Please!!

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Mason, Mar 15, 2018.

  1. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    Your single game looks a lot like mine, you have similar issues like me, so I can feel with you ;)

    I believe, that getting the split step into your game routine is one of the hardest things to learn, once you fall out of continuous training sessions :( Eg. at 2:24, a split step should have helped you there. I've the same issues and I try to integrate the split steps in every single training unit I do.

    Back to your footwork to the backcourt. I think, that your footwork starts really nicely when going back. You do the right steps, you are fast enough to cover it most of the time. But once you hit the shuttle, your routine falters.

    E.g. at 3:05 and 3:08 your racket leg moves to the side. It looks somewhat weird, in your training sessions it looks a lot more naturally.

    E.g. at 3:21, 3:27, 3:52 your follow through is missing. Even if you are just doing a drop shot, try to keep up a follow through. The basic clear, smash and drop should follow almost the same movement pattern with adusted hitting angle and power. If you get this right, you have a really strong foundation for three really important shots in badminton.

    I would sugguest, that you, as you seems to already do it, concentrate your training on a single routine and do it over and over again (include the split step;)). Take a look at 2:07, there your double routine kicks in, take a step forward to cover the front court. Eventually this will happen to your split step, scissor kick, follow through etc. too, just keep it up .
     
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  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Good routine.

    Keep working on the footwork, scissor kick and rhythm.
     
  3. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    Nothing wrong with a slow drop shot. Not every shot needs to be sliced.

    In fact, it's a common bad habit of experienced players. Many rely on slice to hit everything, which actually means they can't hit a simple drop shot. They are using slice to "fix" bad hitting mechanics. I've been working on this a lot with a player recently.

    This is easily underestimated, because people think it's a "basic" skill. Same goes for fast drops. If you can't hit it without slice, then the "basic" technique needs work.

    Personally, I would suggest Mason stays (mostly) away from slice at this stage. It certainly shouldn't be a big focus. It's fine as a bit of fun, or extra skills development "in the background".
     
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  4. asadafgs

    asadafgs Regular Member

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    A simple drop shot includes slice. Hitting a slow drop shot is the same as giving your opponent the initiative, which is why you should always make sure the speed of the shuttle is fast. The only scenario where it's not bad to hit a slow drop is if your opponent isn't fast d has really bad net skills.
     
  5. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Extra emphasis on the split step. It's not just because you're not doing it, it is because you are cultivating a bad habit by pre-empting your training partner's return (as a drop/net/lift).

    Look at how early you are getting to your opponents net/drop returns after your drop. You are only getting here because you are immediately running to the net after you play your drop shot. There is no recovery or split step present.

    This requires discipline - you must force yourself to wait until your partner has actually hit the shuttle before you move. Then you will practice explosiveness and correct timing.

    By timing - I have the same habit as you in the forecourt. My racquet foot lands, then I'm waiting for a while before the shuttle arrives. Suddenly you end up with 3 problems:

    1) no power from your lunge because it's dissipated into the ground already

    2) lack of control because you're trying to fight against the recovery steps

    3) bad positioning because you've moved before you've looked at where the shuttle is going - an example in your video is where you are suddenly swatting at the shuttle because your opponent:s net/drop was further into the midcourt than you expected.

    Try to focus on making drills realistic by being disciplined! I've been there, done that, and I know my bad forecourt timing is a results of hundreds of hours of bad practice when doing such smash/block/net/lift or drop/net/lift/clear drills!

    Just remember, you can't be 'lazy' either - you're still trying to take the shuttle high and early, but you can't 'cheat' is all :)
     
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  6. Ballschubser

    Ballschubser Regular Member

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    So is a flick serve (when serving low), which gives althought the attack to the opponent. Still you can use it to add some uncertainty to your shot choice and unsettle the opponent.
     
  7. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    You brought up a lot of good points here. Unfortunately I can’t work on all of them at once so In your opinion which one of these things should I work on first ?
     
  8. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Great suggestion here , this I can certainly work on !!
     
  9. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Thank you everyone for your recent posts , here are my key take aways from your comments
    - proper split step
    - more discipline when I’m practicing with a partner.
    - I am slicing many Clears and most smashes. Focusing less on power and more on technique should help here
     
  10. asadafgs

    asadafgs Regular Member

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    I would work on jumping and getting highest contact point and being behind the shuttle for offensive shots. I think you can first try to do this with clears. Something else is jumping backwards, not just up. In your footwork videos you always jump in place, but that kind of footwork means an extra few steps that jumping backwards could have replaced. Sorry if my writing is not too clear, but the main thing is to make sure your contact point is high and in front of you. Here is maybe the best videos ever on badminton, and it is said much better than I can.
     
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  11. Gollum

    Gollum Regular Member

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    No, a simple drop shot should not include slice. Slice is something that may be added to drop shots -- either as a "full" slice drop, or just a drop shot with a touch of slice that may help you "tweak" it.

    In some circumstances it's risky to play a slow drop shot, but not always. A lot depends on your movement.

    If you move back sluggishly and take the shuttle level with or behind you, then you are not threatening a strong attack. Playing a slow drop shot is very risky, because your opponent is looking for it.

    At the other extreme, imagine you are playing against Lee Chong Wei. Your lift is slightly short (maybe doubles service). He moves back explosively, gets behind the shuttle, and jumps four foot up in the air. You know he can hit a 400 km/h smash (which he did the previous rally).

    Then he hits a simple slow drop, without slice (for more accuracy / tightness). He quite likes hitting these cross-court from his forehand side, IIRC. I guarantee you will not get it.

    His slow drop shot is dangerous because his movement and smash are dangerous. Deception isn't just about what the racket is doing.

    And a little anecdote: my coach, an ex-international, is extremely good at slices. Frustratingly good. He'll even hit them "inside out" sometimes, which really shouldn't work but does. Nevertheless, he told me that he wished he'd played more slow drop shots in his career (as a singles player). Players often overlook the simpler shots.
     
    #731 Gollum, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
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  12. asadafgs

    asadafgs Regular Member

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    LCW's cross court drop from forehand side has slice and is fast.
     
  13. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Well I had a really good day today. I was able to get lots of help from people at the club. I started off by doing a bunch of drives, then I asked if I could be fed shuttles so that I could work on my weight transfer on my scissor jump. So I started with a bunch of Clears , then some drops then some low power smashes. I really tried to
    1) get further behind the shuttle
    2) get my right leg going forward on the scissor
    Although it was not perfect I made some improvements and those improvements I could feel in the game and I now I can see in my video. I was able to do this practice for 40 minutes before my first game started while h no doubt had a impact on my games.
    Then halfway through the night a player who was trained internationally trained me a for around 20 minutes. He’s only 18 or 19 years old but he seemed to be decent at training for a younger guy. We did front court footwork training to improve my speed and then also basic smash training. In his words the smash training was to “find” my contact point. I will post a video of this training tomorrow.
    I also was able to play 2 singles games against players who one is much better than me and the other one is definitely better but I am able to at least compete
    Along with that another skilled player who played in college was helping me to relax more on my clear strokes which helped with my power. I can’t believe how much help I was able to get but I think it will definitely help me a lot.
    Either way my the practice before hand was great and as long as I continue to do that, I can make better progress.
    Here are my shots
     
  14. DarkHiatus

    DarkHiatus Regular Member

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    Definitely looking much better - you look less 'stuck' in the back corner after a smash.

    However, now it looks like you're just hanging around watching the shuttle after you hit it! Example: 1:10, you hit a straight smash and you just hang around watching it (maybe you expected a direct point?) - your recovery should be a chasse near to the centreline, how far depends on how close you hit it to the sideline. 1:10 is a severe example, but if you watch through that particular camera angle and the whole video, there are many instances where you take this tiny (15cm?) shuffle back to the centreline. Sometimes you take a further step after the shuffle, sometimes you launch into the next shot immediately. What can be said is that if you did your 15cm shuffle, you had time to do a larger chasse back to the centre to prepare for the crosscourt lift. Watch the pros and see how they IMMEDIATELY recover quite far back to the centreline, even if they have to come all the way back out again.

    The result will be that your partner won't have to cover the cross lift in 1:10 as an example, and in general, you'll be better positioned to attack midcourt lifts/drives. If they lift back to the same corner, then you can move out again. It might feel like extra work to begin with, but it saves effort in the long run - just like getting fully behind the shuttle :)

    Take this advice as a next steps thing - it reflects in what we mentioned about training that recovery split step properly in your drills. However, your main scissor movement/rotation is looking much more compact and controlled which is why the recovery looks so underutilised. Previously you didn't have time to recover because your right foot was flailing around and your weight was headed towards the car park behind the court! :p
     
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  15. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Thank you for this observation, I see what you are saying here at the 1:10 mark and how it puts my team out of position for that cross court shot , I can work on this !
    Thanks again
     
  16. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Here is my short training session

    After each set I would rest 30 seconds and he would give me tips. I noticed that my lunge is not deep enough and my recovery to the center is is too slow. But I did get a little better at the front court drill towards the end. Similar to the front court drill, on the smashing drill I started off slicing many of the shuttles as my timing was off. But slowing I improved my contact point towards the end with hitting almost all of the shuttles without slicing it
     
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  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    The forecourt routine is a common one.

    Tips
    A) Landing right foot on lunge - turn it outwards to improve stability
    B) forehand lunge - time landing the foot and hitting the shuttle to be almost together. At the moment, the foot lands first then you hit the shuttle making it feel awkward
    C) left arm counterbalance - not quite efficient. Correct A and B first.
    D) split step when you initiate the move to the shuttle and don’t have so much weight on your heels.

    These take time and continued practice to get better..
     
    #737 Cheung, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  18. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. Regarding B , I wasn’t aware that my forehand side lunge should be done at the same time as I strike the shuttle, is this the same as the backhand side lunge? If if it’s not the same , what’s the reason ?
     
  19. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    It’s the same. Your timing is better on the backhand side compared to the forehand side. On forehand side, it’s commonly seen in players and leads to inconsistent shots.
     
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  20. Mason

    Mason Regular Member

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    Ok thanks
     

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