EASY FINAL

H

Heer

Regular Member
This thread seems to be quite odd in itself. How a final match could be easy. It looks more odd when you're coming through a hard semi final. But this all happened with me some days back in a tournament.
In semi final of that knockout tournament, I defeated a guy by 21-19 7-21 21-18. The match duration was more than an hour. I managed to win the first game with a quite narrow margin but in the second game, that guy played exceptionally well. He soon took a lead of 7-1 and before I could understand, he increased it to 11-3. Soon I think that it would be very hard for me to come back and that is what actually happened. In the last game, we both followed each other point by point , but at last I took 4 conservative points and managed to finish it.
The above game was very tiring and I wondered what could be the next.
But nothing happened like that in the final. In the final, I dominated the game from the very start and managed to finish it in about 40 minutes.
In the first game, I started with a lead of 4-0 and extended it to 9-2 ,17-4 and ended it 21-6. I thought that it is a sudden downfall in his performance and he would make a come back in the second game but in the second game too, I started with 7-0 and extended it to 14-2 and defeated him 21-4 in that game and 21-6 21-4 in the match.
It was very unusual as except the first and second round , almost every match was very tight. Only the first round match was easier than the final in which I had defeated my opponent by 21-4 21-3. This match was also very easy and I defeated him quite comprehensively. But that was justifiable because that was the first round and my opponent was very low ranked. But the final surprised everyone as it was unexpectedly very easy. But no one was as surprised as me because I was expecting a tough contest after a tiring final. I haven't defeated any player so easily in final after I changed my level of play.
I saw almost same thread somewhere else and it reminded me of this tournament.
I created this thread to ask a possible reason for this unexpected final as the finalist can't be a novice and I also wanted to ask you whether you have played any final like that?
 
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Ahmm excuse me, how do you make a post to the forum? I'm new to Badminton Central and i dont know how to. Could u please help me?
 
This can happen in tournaments, but is usually a sign of bad seeding.

Seeding means arranging the entries in a tournament so that the best play each other as late as possible. For instance, the best and 4th-best entries should meet each other in one semifinal, and the 2nd and 3rd-best entries should be in the other semifinal. Seeding is done by the tournament organizers, based on your previous matches, scores, and/or human judgement.

As a general rule of thumb, the lower the level of the tournament, the lower the level of the seeding. This is because:
  • Lower-level tournaments tend to have worse organization – at the very bottom, some may not do any seeding at all!
  • Lower-level players tend to have played fewer matches, so there is not enough data.
  • Lower-level players tend to have played fewer recorded matches in official databases.
  • Data about lower-level players is imprecise, because they can improve much more quickly – a beginner can double in skill in a month, whereas in the top 10, we're talking about fractions of percents.
  • At the very bottom, there is larger variation of skill. Total beginners may enter alongside players who have played for a long time.
Seeding can have gone wrong multiple ways – you and your pre-final opponents may have been seeded too low, or your final opponent may have been seeded to high, for example because he played in prior iterations of the tournament and you didn't.

You can find out which by looking at the tournament plan, where seeds are usually indicated like [1] (presumed best player) or [5/9] (presumed to be fifth-to-ninth best). For an example, look at any international tournament.

There are also other explanations, although less likely:
  • Winning chances in badminton are not transitive; in other words, just because Alice wins against Bob, and Bob wins against Charlie does not mean that Alice wins against Charlie as well. Maybe the final opponent could not cope with your style of playing, and you were very effective.
  • The best players seeded into the bracket your final opponent won got injured/sick and had to drop out. After the tournament is started, there is almost certainly no redrawing if that happens.
  • Similarly, the opponents of your final opponent may have had bad matches, and he was particularly in form/lucky, enough to beat usually-better opponents.
  • Your final opponent may be a better player usually, but did not perform in the finals, because of exhaustion, nerves, distraction, injury, sickness, or some other reason. Maybe he got a call that his pet rabbit died just before the finals and was distracted?
  • You may have over-performed in the final match; you could have been relaxed and well-tuned to the court and shuttle speeds where your opponent struggled.
  • Pure luck can also play a role; if a couple of netcords shots had landed on the other side, the final score would have been 21-14 21-12?
 
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queLOUt said:
Ahmm excuse me, how do you make a post to the forum? I'm new to Badminton Central and i dont know how to. Could u please help me?
Click to expand...
You just did post to the forum! But in a forum, each thread is about one topic, as defined by the original poster in that thread.

First, pick the subforum from the overview. For example, if you are looking for playing partners around you, post in the Australia/New Zealand subforum. If you want to discuss rules, drop by in the Rules/Officiating subforum. Want recommendations for shuttles? Go to the shuttlecock subforum.
There's also a subforum for introducing yourself, where you can safely learn how forums work. Only if you have a question about badminton in general like the one in this thread, post in General subforum (this one).

Once you are in the correct forum, click the Post New Thread button in the top/right, which looks like this:
upload_2019-7-5_16-8-26.png

Write your title and text, and wait for other people to answer!

Alternatively, do what you just did: Pick an existing thread and answer. But please try to stay (roughly) on topic!

Have fun on badmintoncentral!
 
phihag said:
You just did post to the forum! But in a forum, each thread is about one topic, as defined by the original poster in that thread.

First, pick the subforum from the overview. For example, if you are looking for playing partners around you, post in the Australia/New Zealand subforum. If you want to discuss rules, drop by in the Rules/Officiating subforum. Want recommendations for shuttles? Go to the shuttlecock subforum.
There's also a subforum for introducing yourself, where you can safely learn how forums work. Only if you have a question about badminton in general like the one in this thread, post in General subforum (this one).

Once you are in the correct forum, click the Post New Thread button in the top/right, which looks like this:
View attachment 193125

Write your title and text, and wait for other people to answer!

Alternatively, do what you just did: Pick an existing thread and answer. But please try to stay (roughly) on topic!

Have fun on badmintoncentral!
Click to expand...
Thank you a whole lot. Now this helps.
 
phihag said:
This can happen in tournaments, but is usually a sign of bad seeding.

Seeding means arranging the entries in a tournament so that the best play each other as late as possible. For instance, the best and 4th-best entries should meet each other in one semifinal, and the 2nd and 3rd-best entries should be in the other semifinal. Seeding is done by the tournament organizers, based on your previous matches, scores, and/or human judgement.

As a general rule of thumb, the lower the level of the tournament, the lower the level of the seeding. This is because:
  • Lower-level tournaments tend to have worse organization – at the very bottom, some may not do any seeding at all!
  • Lower-level players tend to have played fewer matches, so there is not enough data.
  • Lower-level players tend to have played fewer recorded matches in official databases.
  • Data about lower-level players is imprecise, because they can improve much more quickly – a beginner can double in skill in a month, whereas in the top 10, we're talking about fractions of percents.
  • At the very bottom, there is larger variation of skill. Total beginners may enter alongside players who have played for a long time.
Seeding can have gone wrong multiple ways – you and your pre-final opponents may have been seeded too low, or your final opponent may have been seeded to high, for example because he played in prior iterations of the tournament and you didn't.

You can find out which by looking at the tournament plan, where seeds are usually indicated like [1] (presumed best player) or [5/9] (presumed to be fifth-to-ninth best). For an example, look at any international tournament.

There are also other explanations, although less likely:
  • Winning chances in badminton are not transitive; in other words, just because Alice wins against Bob, and Bob wins against Charlie does not mean that Alice wins against Charlie as well. Maybe the final opponent could not cope with your style of playing, and you were very effective.
  • The best players seeded into the bracket your final opponent won got injured/sick and had to drop out. After the tournament is started, there is almost certainly no redrawing if that happens.
  • Similarly, the opponents of your final opponent may have had bad matches, and he was particularly in form/lucky, enough to beat usually-better opponents.
  • Your final opponent may be a better player usually, but did not perform in the finals, because of exhaustion, nerves, distraction, injury, sickness, or some other reason. Maybe he got a call that his pet rabbit died just before the finals and was distracted?
  • You may have over-performed in the final match; you could have been relaxed and well-tuned to the court and shuttle speeds where your opponent struggled.
  • Pure luck can also play a role; if a couple of netcords shots had landed on the other side, the final score would have been 21-14 21-12?
Click to expand...
I think you are right. This was possible because of bad seeding. I was playing that tournament for the first time and perhaps that finalist had played in the earlier editions of that tournament and that's why he got better seeding and with the help of some luck and hard work , he proceeded to final but these all didn't work in final where he got a defeat from me.
He was not looking physically ill ( I can't say about mental or emotional health ). His movement around the court was normal. He was playing by heart and was playing with the intention of winning. When he lost the match , he was apparently looking very disappointed and frustrated which is very common after a crushing defeat like thisPerhaps, I had handed him his worst defeat ever. I was trying to make a rally but most of the times, he was either playing it out of the court or returning such a weak shot that I couldn't stop myself from playing a powerful smash of which he had no answer. These all confirms that he was mentally distressed which is because he wanted more from himself which is possible only when you are fit. If you are injured , then you know that you will not be able to perform 100% which is very important to win final.
Moreover, if a player is good, no matter what is his mental health, he may not play well but he will not play like this. A 21-6 21-4 defeat is very unusual in final.
 
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Heer said:
I think you are right. This was possible because of bad seeding.
Click to expand...

Are the tournament results published somewhere? Then you can find out what the seeding was. Can you give us a link to the tournament, or the tournament's name?
 
phihag said:
Are the tournament results published somewhere? Then you can find out what the seeding was. Can you give us a link to the tournament, or the tournament's name?
Click to expand...
I am not quite sure whether results were published somewhere or are present somewhere or not but I will try to find it and if I could get it , I will post here as soon as possible.
 
I tried hard to get the published results of that tournament but didn't get much success.
I think it was so because the tournamentwas held some months ago and may be the results are not available now. Also, it was not a senior level competition, it was just an U-19 tournament and perhaps that's why enough interest was not shown to publish its results.
However, I got a newspaper of the next day ( but how sad, it was in regional language of our area and not in English ) . It also didn't gave any significant information about that final.
 
phihag said:
It may be on tournamentsoftware.com . You search for your name here. Some national or regional federations also have their own systems. Unfortunately, many tournament systems forbid indexing by search engines.
Click to expand...
No , it hasn't published in tournament software either. Is there any specific time upto which results can be displayed or any specific level whose results are stored for a long t?
 
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Heer said:
No , it hasn't published in tournament software either. Is there any specific time upto which results can be displayed or any specific level whose results are stored for a long t?
Click to expand...

Not being on tournamentsoftware.com doesn't bode well. All international tournaments are their, most high-level national tournaments, and many lower-level tournaments. Sure, there are good alternative platforms for tournament results, but tournamentsoftware.com is the most popular.

Tournaments generally publish their results indefinitely. It's not as results take a lot of disk space; all results of all badminton tournament matches ever would easily fit onto a single modern disk drive.

In any case, you can always ask the organizer directly for the results and seeding. I presume you have already scoured the tournament website for results/seeding.

Was this an official tournament? If so, you can also ask the federation (or simply look on their website). Just make sure to ask the right federation; oftentimes there are county-, state and national federations, which may use different tournament systems; If this was a low-level tournament, then it's the county federation if one exists, otherwise the state federation.
Having consistent seeding and result publication procedures is one of the advantages of an official tournament.

If you want, you can also tell us the name of the tournament, and we'll have a look for it.
 
phihag said:
Not being on tournamentsoftware.com doesn't bode well. All international tournaments are their, most high-level national tournaments, and many lower-level tournaments. Sure, there are good alternative platforms for tournament results, but tournamentsoftware.com is the most popular.

Tournaments generally publish their results indefinitely. It's not as results take a lot of disk space; all results of all badminton tournament matches ever would easily fit onto a single modern disk drive.

In any case, you can always ask the organizer directly for the results and seeding. I presume you have already scoured the tournament website for results/seeding.

Was this an official tournament? If so, you can also ask the federation (or simply look on their website). Just make sure to ask the right federation; oftentimes there are county-, state and national federations, which may use different tournament systems; If this was a low-level tournament, then it's the county federation if one exists, otherwise the state federation.
Having consistent seeding and result publication procedures is one of the advantages of an official tournament.

If you want, you can also tell us the name of the tournament, and we'll have a look for it.
Click to expand...
OK. I will write to organizers for the results and will see what happens.
 
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