Current training regime

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by Cheung, Mar 21, 2017.

  1. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Covered these recently with a very high standard coach.
    Always split, take a little step (this can be out to the side mind you), keep the feet active, but do not turn your shoulders a lot. Try to keep them square-ish for flat shots.
     
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  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    That's interesting. I am not taught to take a forward step unless the shuttle is coming at a slower speed.

    Stepping to the side is ok with moving the centre of balance along the same horizontal plane (assuming the drives are coming at a certain height)
     
  3. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Can be a very small step. It's mostly to keep your feet ready I think, a habitual thing.

    EDIT: It helps a lot if you're used to taking that small step regardless if they hit a much wider shot to your backhand as you're ready to step across.
     
  4. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I reviewed a video of the mens doubles final of the English National Championships. I don't see the players doing a step forward (not even a little one) on their defence at the time of hitting the shuttle.
     
  5. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Keep the racket foot active and moving into the shot a little even in drives is what I've been taught anyway. If it's coming straight at the body it shouldn't be enough to stop your shoulders being square.

    I think it's just a good habit things for if they cross. This was one particular drill we did. Lots of forehand drives, then she (the coach) would suddenly drive cross. A common error I made was stepping forward too much, turning my shoulders.

    Come to think of it, this was what my previous coaches did too, but they didn't explain the square thing as far as I can remember. Maybe I forgot. But yes both of the players that told me to do it this way played at an international level and were medalists in some decent events.
     
  6. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I was wondering if teaching this little step forward was a regional difference in style. However, I don't see it in the admittedly small sample of matches I reviewed.

    I agree with keeping the shoulders square on. I did notice not every top player's footwork position reflects this. Did I mention before I haven't practiced forehand drives? All the practice is done with backhand grip. If the shuttle comes to the right (forehand side) of my body, I have to use the backhand stroke instead of switching to forehand.
     
  7. pepe54

    pepe54 Regular Member

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    @Charlie-SWUK & @Cheung
    By keeping the shoulders square on, do you mean this?


    So to clarify, this square on stance is strictly for mid court drives while the side on (parallel) stance is for smashes and clears?

    I believe that regional variations do not exist from comparing these two videos but CMIIW, I might have interpreted these incorrectly. By the way, I got quite lost at the pronation bit here. I find my racquet tacking an inward arc instead; my shuttles fly off at an upward angle too, which indicates something has gone clearly wrong :D


    Lastly, what would you say the correct form is for long forehand drives from the baselines ie what Robertson does here? I find this quite a useful shot to learn/play:


    PS - @Cheung I would like to post a video of myself playing but lack recording equipment. However I can say that I have been heavily criticized for having a "tennis like" arm windup instead of the proper wrist / forearm isolated movements. Unfortunately, my wrists are not flexible enough to generate sufficient range of motion for efficient swings.
     
    #87 pepe54, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  8. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I would say majority of times one should practice position square on. Nothing is ever that strict. :)

    I would teach this first if their basic technique has inadequacies and then I wouldn't be so strict afterwards as people develop their individual variations.

    This depends what position you are in. I have to say, it is an unusual shot to play.
     
    #88 Cheung, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
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  9. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    In my exercise and description, I am working on defensive drives. So my coach is standing at the forecourt hitting shuttles to me.

    This teaching video of Gail and Nathan shows both positioned in the midcourt area. The shot that I practice are the backhand shots performed by Nathan. You notice that Nathan doesn't move his foot forward - different to @Charlie-SWUK description. I also think Nathan is being a bit lazy with the contact point letting the shuttle come quite close to the body. For the racquet preparation, before hitting the shuttle, I am taught to keep the racquet facing the net - not turn upwards towards the ceiling as I used to before. Nathan also shows two shots when hitting the shuttle. One is the tapping type stroke, the other is a short follow through. I practice the tapping type stroke trying to concentrate the fingers contracting just as the shuttle is hit.
     
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  10. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Nathan does it perfect but he is not at the baseline! The baseline means standing at the back two lines. This invalidates my previous answer of it being an unusual shot.
     
  11. pepe54

    pepe54 Regular Member

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    Nathan does look quite relaxed in that video; I do agree that it looks uncomfortable with how close the shuttle arrives in promity to his body.

    What did you think of Zhao Jian Hua's backhand drives in his video ? It appeared to me that he was constantly shuffling about, alternating between his leading leg, then lunging forward when the opportunity arose for an attacking backhand drive. If you rewind a bit for more context (2m42s), he suggests moving forwards and backwards in adjustment though I can't quite work out if he's actually freezing his movement prior to a hit, or moving; I'd guess that he's still moving/lunging positively into the shot.
     
    #91 pepe54, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  12. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Use the fingers to help generate the range of motion.

    Yes. Ok when you have the opportunity. You need to recognise when, keep your rhythm, hit it around the same time as putting your foot down, keep the same hitting distance in front of your body....All to keep the same quality of return. So, rather complicated. Not easy to perform.
     
    #92 Cheung, May 6, 2017
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
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  13. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    Yes, this is for midcourt shots. That video also demonstrates taking a small step to hit each time. He does it a few times without 'needing' to take the step. I'm pretty sure it's a good habit thing.
     
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  14. shooting stroke

    shooting stroke Regular Member

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    Excellent placement result

    Often players treat their low serves just as part of the hitting sequences when playing. If done perfectly well with element of deception, its a weapon by itself.

    Once able to satisfactory execute a consistent validity and placement results in your low serves, improving your low serves heights and velocity curvature as tight around the net cord are the next skill to be mastered.

    Keep it up.:):):):)
     
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Here's my serve from 3.5 yrs ago...


    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
     
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  16. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I came back from a tough game session in the evening and the next day on court with coach.

    After my games, I did some thinking and had some feedback from my friends. The good thing is apparently, my hands are fast. The bad thing is once I am forced to move, my technique becomes rushed and the quality of shot drops dramatically. My own feeling from the games is some problem in moving. My feet feel like being stuck in some treacle and cannot move. This is especially significant on the first step after a split step.

    I feel I lack about one foot in distance in getting to the shuttle. If this was better, I would be in a much better position to play different shots.

    I explained this problem to my coach and said I felt if I could solve this issue, my confidence will go up exponentially although the skill improvement may only be marginal. For the current lesson, we did mainly three exercises.

    - he stands in forecourt and feeds shuttles driving to me. Very quick feeding and me driving them back. At random intervals, he suddenly plays a slower shot that goes downwards into the forecourt a bit further past the service line. So for me, obviously, I have to react to the change of pace and move forward. First few sets of feeding were poor. I was standing too upright to effectively push forward with my leg.

    - we do our "me at the forecourt playing drives" routine, coach is feeding underarm fast shuttles from a midcourt position. First we do our previous practice routine to get me in the rhythm and timing my bounce. Then, at random intervals, he feeds a much slower drive and slightly loop to the shuttle. This is to force me to move forward a step which was where I have problems. The diagnosis was quite interesting and reminded me of @DarkHiatus ' movement issues. There are a number of faults. Shoulders are not forward enough and therefore centre of balance is not forward so I cannot push effectively with my legs. I also take an extra small step backwards with my left leg to create that forward centre of balance which a) loses time and b) lose some distance. It was relatively easy to correct the movement to the my backhand forecourt area. But my step forward to the net on the forehand side is pretty difficult to correct. On the forehand side, despite positioning myself correctly with shoulders forward, I just couldn't reach the shuttle comfortably. The footwork habit of taking an extra initial left foot step is harder to change. Coach also noticed at the start my movement, my right shoulder moves backward before stretching forward. Is that a movement from watching the Matrix too much? In this session, I was not able to effectively correct the movement. I am, however, at random intervals at work, standing up, practicing my centre of balance, avoiding dropping my right shoulder backwards etc. Not sure what my coworkers think of me but they know I am badmintonfanatic anyway. :)

    - third exercise is coach standing at centre of court sending shuttles to me left, right, mid court and up. Again, working on rhythm and timing of my bounce, how my legs work and not to take an extra step after my bounce.

    This session was physically harder and also longer at 1.5h. I felt like a lot had been achieved by getting a clear diagnosis and addressing fundamental problems in movement for doubles play. My satisfaction rating is a 9.5 out of 10.
     
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  17. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    Sounds like a great session. Something you wrote resonates with me: its about being not quite behind the shuttle (I think you said that but perhaps you meant a foot short in all directions). Regardless, the thing that really helped me was in keeping the shuttle in the same place in front of me i.e. my goal when moving is only to keep the shuttle in an optimal hitting position, without worrying about my footwork patterns. I found this simply got me into the habit of moving slightly more, meaning I am now much better (although I still don't like receiving high serves).

    Good luck mate!
     
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  18. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    I think this shows the different learning styles we have. I can stretch but not be at a good hitting position because my body is not moving enough.

    We noticed the movement problems happen more going to the forehand side. This means my back leg to push off will be the left leg. This is the leg I had a meniscus injury. Not sure if that has anything to do with it. With the Taekwon Do, some of my left kicks are very weak and slow, especially when I step back with the left leg and then kick forward. The instructor told me not to place my rear foot heel on the ground when stepping back. For sure, I think my movement problem is multifactorial and for me, I like to dissect down this small factors to get the end result. I don't think strength of the leg is a major factor. Just wondering if from my injury, I have lost some positional feedback in the joint.
     
  19. MSeeley

    MSeeley Regular Member

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    I suppose strength of feedback etc might be an issue, but I think, from everything you've said, its just more likely to be a habit. Its not speed, its not power, its just that you are currently wired to stop a little bit short of where you later realise you wish you had been. I described how I fixed mine (focusing on staying behind the shuttle and nothing else) and this in turn led to a new habit of getting behind the shuttle. It doesn't take any extra effort - I was literally just stopping short before because 1. my mind said that I had moved enough, when I hadn't (because it lacked the correct experience to form the correct judgement) and 2. I was so used to hitting from that position.

    I also believe that if you were to focus on moving much more than you need to e.g. aiming to get one meter further, then you would quickly learn where you actually want to be. My advice might not be for you - but I would seriously consider just doing a practice session where your goal is to move a lot more than you need to, and do so intentionally. This will give you additional experience, from which you can then figure out what actually works.

    For what its worth, I don't think your injury will constrain you in the long run. It may or may not be working "perfectly" right now, but I believe it has the potential to improve dramatically with the appropriate practice.

    Good luck!
     
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  20. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Ah, I see where you are coming from. I will try. One of my problems against very good players is that the court seems so much larger...can't even move enough let alone aim to run further!
     
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