You don't need to, you can estimate if from a 5rm, 8rm, etc. Just google a 1RM calculator. Take into account if you're doing 3 sets to add a little to your estimated 1RM. It doesn't have to be exact, just a ballpark guide to what weight you should be using if you're doing weighted plyo training. However if you're finding classes is your thing then do that, the best routine is the one you stick to. Strength focus will set your badminton for a while so there's that to take into account. However if you want to pick up a starting strength book and go that route then do give it a go but don't take the advice on eating all you can. The first couple of months are incredibly easy, but then it gets difficult. There are lots of life benefits to strength for us oldies too and it's not all about badminton. Part of the reason I do barbell strength and weighted plyo is not to get wiped out. I can do low volume 3x5 routines twice a week (3x if I'm just focusing on strength). It's much better for me than doing lots of reps of something, and also takes up little time because I'm using compound movements rather than every machine in the room. Plyo I also do low volume. Same with fitness. 30 minute sessions of hiit is fine for me. If you do a 3x5 weighted plyo squat jumps you would have to jump dozens of times to get the same effect. even then it wouldn't be as beneficial. My sweet spot appears to be 2x strength 2x plyo, 2x fitness a week in short focused sessions but it's taken quite a while to build up to this. The strength I stay comfortable with rather than trying to increase it. If I'm feeling tired or have matches I'll drop to 1 session for one or all. The fitness I usually drop first if I'm on court a lot followed by the plyos. I keep stroke and coaching sessions to low movement and technical focus as much as possible and again adjust my fitness routine depending on what I'm training. I'm not 100% optimal for badminton, I don't train my upper body as much as my lower and core but I do train it more than suggested as that's my preference for overall life things. I also listen do my body and drop the weight rather than push through as I would do as a youth. And stretching is really important too. I do a 15 minute routine daily. Easily done. More weight will help you lift more weight though.
Not necessarily.. Some years back I did some squatting on the side and it suddenly boomed, wild strength gains at squats. Somewhat over 2x bodyweight. Didn't get in the way of badminton at all. I wasn't exhausting the muscles. My back gained quite a bit of muscle too as it grew to enjoy the feel of the heavy barbell. Building strength doesn't require much time commitment at all. Especially if I was at the leisure centre anyway for badminton.
Yes that's true, not necessarily, i guess it depends on the type of game you play, what age you are, what your training/competitive balance is, what program you're following and other variables. My game depends on rapid movement so focusing mostly on gaining strength, putting on extra weight through muscle and neglecting speed, and match sharpness slowed me down and took my overall game backwards. I then got faster and more explosive than I originally was once I shifted focus to plyo where I jumped a level. If you look at programs such as Starting Strength, rips advice is to focus on strength, it's not really an on the side thing to do. At my age I didn't want to risk injury by doing strength and competitive badminton at the same time, and I'd suggest not to try and combine the two for someone who's of a similar age like Cheung is. It only takes a couple of months of strength focus to gain it.
Apart from the training , some plyo and speed work and playing, I sometimes go to a movement class when time is quite free. This one is a little different and works more on coordination. In the class, we have bits of equipment and try to do symmetrical movement exercises gradually challenging our limits. Some of the exercises are coordination + reaction exercises. Why do I go to this class? Partly curiosity to learn more but also to learn to relax my muscles to get better movement. My movement is very stiff on court and I am not using the full range of movement well. It was okay when I was just playing more social games but if aiming for a higher level, then trying to relax the body at the right times (also related to rhythm) is important. It does sound a bit wacky and weird. It’s mainly to try and get back my movements faster. I remember once a long time ago, I stopped badminton for a prolonged period and came back. It took nine months of just playing to feeling better with my movements. Now I’m hoping with our extra knowledge and understanding of agility and movement, I can shorten the process to feeling comfortable on court.
That really might depend on what level of badminton one is at. I can see it helping a lot at lower levels because you can hold your core better, recover balance faster. Those factors help a lot in moving around court over skills. When you’re at a higher level, your skills have more refinement with muscles memory. Change the muscles with weight training induces changes in linking the movements and you have to adjust and relearn during the process.
Actually it sounds really interesting. I'm moving back to singles next season so I'll take a look at whether there's any movement specific exercises that will help. Never thought about how muscle relaxation and rhythm might benefit movement.
I think if somebody has played for long enough that they can no longer hold their core, then they should take some rest time. Personally I saw lots of examples when I played where one could say I wasn't using my core well, but it was more that I didn't know to do so, especially with all the talk about "relax". Or, let's say I was using my core a bit initially, and then mid game it went, it was more of an unconscious thing and if I became aware of it or practised a bit with my core engaged, then I would maintain it. I have the natural strength to be able to keep my body in the positions required for badminton. If the match has gone on long enough that I don't then it's probably safest to leave it and come back when the cardio/fitness is better and one can last longer. At one point I had a bit of soreness in the lower back when doing an overhead, and I was back behind it. But I must have been stretching a bit too much in some ways. Not doing so could still reach out just as far. I found that having a neutral pelvic tilt (not anterior or posterior), maybe a little bit of lordosis in the lower back but only minor. Then it was much more comfortable. It's an interesting one 'cos years ago some coaches used to teach people when squatting to have a lot of anterior pelvic tilt, as a way to get very upright. (and in fairness I did do some super heavy squats like that and was fine - luckily). But in some more recent videos that make a lot of sense, they say more neutral. And that having lots of anterior pelvic tilt when squatting heavy , as many used to do, is a bit of a hazard. (of course we certainly don't want the other way , posterior pelvic tilt).. A good way to develop strength to keep the core stable in badminton, is to keep the core stable in badminton. If you can go for 5 minutes, then trying to increase it to 10 minutes. Badminton aside, I used to have poor posture and was taught exercises, and while they helped to learn the anatomical movements, what really helped was , having learnt what good postture was, simply to walk with good posture. Initially for even a minute was tiring but I quickly built up to 5 minutes and 10min and however long. In boxing or MMA, fighters are often trained to keep their arms up.. and it can be very tiring . But they build up the strength to do that, by simply doing it. I wouldn't want to dispute that there are benefits to strength training that can be used in badminton.. I know that Viktor Axelson worked on himself athletically in the gym , and that makes sense 'cos it takes more work for a tall person to be athletic.. And when they are they're so much better. I heard he worked on his ability to get up, which I suppose means eg after defending a smash.. And I think i've seen a badminton insight video where they spoke of how holding weights in your hands and doing lunges , helps for maintaining posture after doing a lift.. On round the head shots I found that to ensure not "falling back", if very tipped back, was simply raising the racket knee high enough. (besides what I knew before of not leaning back!) A major stress to muscles in badminton, whether training or playing. is from the volume. There is an interplay though also where more strength can allows for being able to do more volume, and doing more volume can create an increase in strength.
Lifting heavy weight doesn't neglect speed.. If the weight moves slow, that can be because it's so heavy that while your muscles work explosively, the weight doesn't move fast. If that weight was made much lighter and you used the same explosive force as with the heavy weight then it'd shoot up. Though there is also the idea of being slow enough to be controlled. But one can mix explosive controlled, and slower controlled. A lot of strength can be neurological and how much mass you put on easily/hard, can be very much down to genetics.. Some people can get really strong without becoming huge. There's a rock climber called Magnus on youtube that is a good example of that. Or various people doing weighted pullups.. In weightlifting there's a lot of thought and talk about "overtraining". In badminton there isn't much unfortunately. So in badminton there's a lot of overuse injuries due to lack of knowledge.. In the weightlifting world there's much better understanding and listening to the body, partly because you need to rest in order for the gains to come. So a very dedicated weightlifter would likely take rest really seriously, because it makes them stronger which is what they want. Whereas in badminton people might think oh they want to improve their badminton, and the importance of rest isn't focussed on so much. Badminton as well as gym stuff could increase or decrease risk.. but the increase risk is more down to the badminton bit, being that you can't always control the schedule so much , there's training + playing + you have an opponent on the other side. especially with competitive badminton. In weightlifting people are listening to the muscles. Besides also taking rest seriously as a really key part of the sport. In badminton when training one might do lots of lunges.. thinking about the technique, without a thought as to "hang on that's a lot of reps maybe too many". Also work with weight is way more adaptable. So if you have an issue you could design exercises around it that don't trigger it. There's such variety. Whereas playing badminton isn't that adaptable. If a person has a hamstring issue, that is affected by playing badminton then you can't really change badminton..Whereas with weights they could do upper body stuff. Weights can be done very flexibly in a way that is working very much with the body and is not rough on the body. Badminton can too in theory to an extent but it's often not and even very educated pro players get lots of injuries! I've had an injury(some small minor ones that healed fast and were no big deal, or healed in months, but one that has been very long lasting). I think Cheung has spoke of an injury, and we read about badminton here a lot and still had it happen. It's just not a very safe sport, practically speaking and in many cases. Coaching manuals don't talk about overuse injuries which is insane. (They can affect muscle or bone.. bone more likely in older people but muscle can be younger too). One might learn about it once one has it and some might not learn about it even once they have it.
I didn't say it did. This isn't a generic advice thread, it's something where I'm sharing a personal experience with someone who's at a similar age and having similar experiences and struggles of their body going against them when they're a high level player. It sounds like you can effortlessly work a strength training program into your badminton programming routine and have fantastic genes to breeze your way to a 2bw squat without breaking sweat. Congratulations on being able to do that over us mere mortal gym/barbell/weighlifting beginners who have to slog to gain strength, start tiring out and getting heavier once they get to 1.5bw squat and don't feel like being on court as much. Magnus probably isn't a good example of someone who feels they've gotten slower and less sharp on court against the 17 year old internationals they're training with weekly if they put on 2kg. I'm not sure whether going from 21 to 23 bmi can be classified as becoming huge in my case. But having less energy and my timing changing while I was focusing on strength was a very real phenomenon, and I'll be damned if someone's going to tell me that isn't a perfectly normal thing to happen to someone approaching 50 because of some youtube rockclimber Out of curiosity, what league level were you playing at when you did your strength routine alongside badminton? What age were you? And what on court routines were you doing? The rest of your post contains some very useful information which I agree with. But you seem to be contradicting yourself when suggesting that people don't adequately rest in badminton and at the same time you seem to be implying someone approaching 50 can potentially integrate a strength routine into their badminton regime with ease, without changing their routine, and only positive effects on their game. This makes no sense as you simply cannot be doing badminton training at this age and then just add barbell work on top of it without the risk of overtraining. The sensible thing to do is top stop training or doing as much training, which is going to set your badminton back. All of the strength books suggest people of our age have greater rest between weight training days than younger people and we absolutely have to be more cautious than just believing someone get under a bar and get fantastic results improving their game in no time whatsoever. For start you have to take the time to learn the proper form not to get injured, and for most people at our age this is going to take time and mental focus away from their badminton.
I haven’t played serious badminton for five years or maybe even a bit longer. I was too busy with my kids and just kept it to social badminton or coaching my kid. I was able to to do some gym or MT/boxing except during a period during the covid times when a meniscus tear gave me problems for over a year. I just woke up one morning with knee pain and restricted movement which turned out to be a meniscus injury. Anyway, after covid and with my knee feeling okay. I was back in the gym for a year or more. Now, my badminton is added on to strength training and not strength training added to badminton. Accordingly, I reduced my weights a bit and sometimes I go down even more and go for reps with a quick lift or push to train the neurological connections for speed (and a forlorn hope for developing more type I muscle fibres). Interestingly, it’s the Malaysian coaches that have commented on timing breathing properly in a rally to help the rhythm, therefore saving energy. I have a tendency to hold my breath for prolonged periods with the action is fast. When suddenly it slows down, I make an error more easily and apparently, if I timed my breathing better, the potential for error will be less.
Yesterday training was gym working on speed. One of the exercises was standing legs together, drop into lunge position and as quickly as possible back up to standing position. One of the very common errors is in the lunge position, dipping down slightly to push back up. This has to be minimal (if at all). Another exercise was leaning forward against the wall, arms outstretched. One knee raised and then try to switch positions as quickly as possible. Another one was go into a lunge on a slightly raised platform with most of the weight on leading leg. Then push down as hard as possible on that leading leg to go in the air, switch the legs in the air and land again in the lunge position with the other leg forward instead. Other exercises were short sprints, initially with a belt and attached to a resistance, and then without the resistance. Quite good fun. Today, I just did an hour on upper body exercises. Concentrated on timing of breathing and also trying to open the chest more.
How long does it take to get to a 2bw squat https://www.reddit.com/r/Stronglifts5x5/comments/519jqm/can_you_squat_2x_your_weight_how_hard_is_it/ Mostly years, if at all. This is young weightlifters doing a program where you ONLY focus on strength 3x a week and eat a whopping calorie surplus. Took me 6 months of this program with no badminton or anything else and a massive amount of discipline to get to 1.7 and it was not only physically but mentally exhausting, and also.. that was many years ago when I was younger. Sorry for derailing your thread a bit Cheung, I'm not going to post any further on this subject.
I think I had a good two sessions these past couple of days. It’s been a comment that I’m really stiff have really restricted movement on overhead action. I took myself to a session where actually only very few people attended. Games were very light. There’s one senior (even senior to me LOL) who I get on with well. I used a few strategies to work on my overhead and get some improvement. First, I just asked him to lift the shuttle in a routine and then I played a half smash, come forwards and block to the net and he lifts again. He observed that I did not turn my body enough on my preparation. Also, when I swung the racquet, I tended to use a rotation along the horizontal plane. Having someone else give their opinion on my problems with a slightly different way of communication was pretty helpful. It must be because of boxing that I rotate on the horizontal plane. We worked on that a little while but I freely admit, I felt all disconnected with linking it all together. Then I grabbed another senior and got him to practice lifts from the forecourt and I would be practicing drop shots with an overhead action. For this one I concentrated on having turned my body more during preparation and trying to lead the overhead with my hip and getting my elbow higher. Lastly, on my own I did a backcourt routine. From base position, go the the rear court forehand and backhand sides and shadow overhead swings with the right hip leading. Just really really basic stuff but trying to groove back a better swing without the distractions of hitting a shuttle. Today I had my badminton coaching. I started with my warmups and the same rear court shadow routine. I altered it slightly by holding a shuttlecock tube in my left hand and using that lead my stroke. It worked pretty well because it helped me stop my left arm drifting off left or right uncontrollably. I could keep it in one vertical plane better and then minimise left or right deviations with my right arm stroke. I felt a bit smoother with the stroke and a bit more balanced in my whole body. Coach started feeding shuttles to the rear court and I had a problem getting a clean contact on the round the head side. He said I dropped my right elbow too low and close to the body. Bam, I got that immediately because I see that happens with my kid. Made the adjustment with an higher elbow height on preparation to good effect. I was really pleased with that. It’s a bit funny because I have been discussing with a few parents recently on strategies to help their kids get a better preparation for their overheads. I ask them to consider doing dry swings with a squash racquet - the extra weight gives feedback on positioning and correct alignment of the stroke. I should take my own advice LOL. Coach also tells me my side steps backwards are too small so I can’t get far enough backwards quickly enough. This is cool and I have to work on that another time. We did a lot of drive practice again. Definitely an important requirement for doubles. Coach has me doing driving from behind mid court with the shuttle coming at me around shoulder or just below shoulder height. Again, we’re going for consistency and practicing how to concentrate the power right on to the racquet head. The shoulder arm wrist action is sort of similar to the school boy game of flicking a wet towel causing it to make a cracking sound. Backhands are definitely far easier than forehands. There were quite a few other small details to consider. What I do is record these down. In the past, I used to write it down in a note book. Now, I type out the points in a WhatsApp to the coach when I have my breaks. That’s a record for both us and he can see how I understand what I need to do. Overall, I rate it as good progress. There are things I can do by myself to improve without the requirement of a coach.
I commend you for trying this. This really is no mean feat if you haven’t been continually keeping it up. I found in the past, I really need to to keep the practice to a minimum of three times a week for singles specific training. Sometimes that can be pretty hard to fit in.
Sounds like some good sessions. I think the key is just to keep showing up particularly on the days you don't feel like it. I always come away from sessions with many things to work on. I also did a coaching session this week on backhand rear court for singles although I was focusing on backhand. I've been training backhand for a while now as I figured I'd need it more and more the older I get. My auto instinct is to turn to the backhand now on attacking clears instead of going for the overhead as I just can't get to the overhead as easy. I'll start to train overhead again once I'm 100% confident down the backhand side but it's so much harder these days, particularly the post shot recovery.
My coach asked me how I have doing this past week with regards to the badminton. I had a session of high level games where it was difficult. The players are faster and stronger being able to play a variety of shots from the same position. That’s taken away some of the anticipation I might use so I am frequently late on to the shuttle. There was a specific problem with a partner who is taller than me. When he’s serving from the left court, the shuttle is in front of the body and he aims directly to the T area and stands quite upright. It means I can’t see the shuttle at all from behind him until it nearly has arrived at the net. Against players who receive the shuttle early, I get even less time to react. There was also a player who had a bit of an unorthodox racquet preparation but could still play shots into areas which I thought would have been difficult to play to. Overall, I wasn’t really disappointed nor discouraged. I said to the coach it’s a matter of experience playing with different players and learning the different options they have. I did have a chat with the partner with the left court serves that I had difficulty with just to help his awareness. When I went to a lower level group with slower pace, I felt my movement around court seemed to be more comfortable and with better timing. Some of my off the body backhand lifts didn’t really go as far as I wanted - I couldn’t get that crisp contact point. Back to the coaching lesson, coach remarked that I could last longer with a single shuttle rally drill sent to midcourt sides, middle and rear court. I play drives, smashes, half smash , pushes past the service line. I can’t cover the whole width nor fully to the rear court - it’s a limited area of the court that the coach sends the shuttle to training my consistency. We find that if I more to the rear of the court and play a power shot, when the shuttle is sent back to me half pace and arrives at between hip and shoulder height, my error rate increases quite a lot. This happens both on my left and right side of the body. He thinks I don’t relax my body and arm fast enough after a power shot so the subsequent shot is played with a tense arm. We also practiced the round the head side smash. Judging and moving to the right position was inconsistent. We tried various alterations because I have this issue with a tight body and only predominantly using my arm when smashing. What seemed to work is loading up my right to push my right hip forward as the racquet head drops behind me as this allows the lower body to come forward and go into extension before the shoulder. Again consistency is the issue dropping into bad habits. No other solution except to keep working on it. Will sometimes do shadow swings next to a wall at work trying to concentrate on activating the right leg and right hip consistently.
I made some changes to my grip as I noticed some limitations in switching forehand to backhand. My previous grip was a Kimony grip with a little line of sponge running the whole length of the grip. It gave a little extra ribbed feeling and great for a secure feel of the handle. Have used this model of grip from when I played singles in 30 degrees Celsius and high humidity. I switched to the Yonex AC102 and the rolling of the handle with the fingers feels less clumsy on the rapid changes. The handle still felt a bit big though so I reduced the overlap of the grip. Now, it’s the Yonex G5 with the orginal leather grip and then the AC102 over that.
Urgh, I hate that. He should be moving to anticipate the return instead of just standing there after he's served so you know where to cover.
I haven’t been able to practice or play games for a couple of weeks but I do manage to do Muay Thai, boxing and some weights sessions quite regularly. These help me keep up my cardiovascular fitness and use up calories. I have also been charting my food input to lose about 3 to 4 kg in weight. That could help my running around the court! I have a GarminSports watch that links to the MyFitnessPal app. I found in the past that using one or the other doesn’t really help motivate my control of snacks or sugary drinks. However, using both together where the data can be combined to an overall rough assessment of daily negative or positive calorie balance is really helpful. So far, I lost a kilo of weight (measure in the mornings when I wake up) over ten days which is quite impressive. I have been taking whey supplements and the other changes are considerably reducing snacks and flavoured drinks. I eat less rice and noodles during meals when they come up. A few times a week, I eat salad for lunch. Today, back with coach after a break we played box singles. But this time the box singles was restricted to the rear court area with an imaginary line across midcourt. Good practice to keep pushing drives and consistency. That was quite tiring and I really couldn’t control length very well. It took a bit of time to get used to the rhythm. I have a bad habit of dropping the racquet head below my hip level when the shuttle on the opposite side is at the height of the net. My mind sort of switches off on racket carriage. We did side to side midcourt drive practice again. Getting a good contact on the forehand side is again difficult- can’t really get that nice clean hitting sound on the forehand side many times. We also worked on the rhythm a bit with one set, exhaling on hitting the shuttle. Then lots of practice on serve returns aiming for the tramlines. Lastly, I asked to practice smashes again. Oops, same problem again as above in my quotes. Right elbow too low in preparation. I then tried to correct the elbow and then smash - my timing went completely awry. Coach changed methods again to help me get the timing. He got me to stand in the forecourt, he fed short lifts, I just kept my elbow higher and then hit steep smashes (like the routines you see on Instagram). That timing came within one set of multi shuttles. We went back to the rear court for another set of shuttles for smashes and my timing was really good! Far better contact on the shuttles and a lot better transference of speed of the racquet into the shuttle.
Last night I had the opportunity to play some games. I was actually a bit tired from gym sessions the day before but thought I would go for the games anyway as my step count for the day was rather low. I did my warmup a bit differently this time and I am not sure if whether it had an effect because I played very comfortably and confidently feeling like I had the movement that I know my body can do on court. My movement was a lot faster but this affected my timing of hitting the shuttle so that shots were not very consistent. Previously, my movement always felt a bit restricted and slow. In addition to the normal warm up, I did some eye exercises. I practiced focusing on a point and rotating my head (moving the eyeballs). Another exercise was to focus on a point but to be aware of objects in my peripheral vision (in the four quadrants of the visual field). After that I did a few circular movements of the limbs and then shadow exercises. It was good to get some rhythm and movement going. I always tell my coach, if I have the movement, my self confidence will go up. Looks like it’s coming.
