Chinese match fixing....

Discussion in 'World Championships 2003' started by kwun, Aug 2, 2003.

  1. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

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    IBF Inquiry into Gao Ling/Huang Sui

    I've read that the IBF is investigating Gao Ling and Huang Sui for the semi-final match against Yang Wei and Zhang Jiewen at the World Championships.

    The second game only took 11 minutes and finished 15-3. The heads of several other countries' teams and a secretary at the IBF accused the Chinese team of match-fixing.

    Anyone heard any more about this?

    Personally, I don't think there's anything you can do about it. If a coach wants to tell his weaker pair to let his strongest pair have an easy game, surely that's his right. It's not very sporting, but it's not illegal is it? And how can you ever really prove that a pair lost on purpose?

    I saw a Gong Ruina match in which she beat a Greek player 11-0, 11-0, taking only 4 minutes per game. If that had been against a Chinese opponent, would Gong be in a whole heap of trouble now?
     
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    Same as Zhang Ning beating Mia 11-0, Camilla 11-0 in the 2nd games of their respective matches.

    Or Gong Zhi Chao beating Camilla 11-1, 11-0 in 2001 Sudirman cup.....
     
  3. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    Is there anything you can do about, no, not considering how dominant China are. Has it been happening for years, yes, as far back as 1990 all England I remeber blatantly fixed matches.

    Also think about how it might mentally effect a player like Camilla , looking at the draw, knowing they have to beat three Chinese in a row to win or that even if they beat a chinese in a semi the one in the final will have had a bye in the other semi from a compatriot.
     
  4. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    What then is the solution?

    In Singapore Open, Peter gade will meet Jonassen

    in rd1 and possibly meet Kaldau and Rasmussen in Rd2,

    are they going to exhaust one another before progressing.

    Maybe like Kwun suggested, players must take up acting lessons.
     
  5. david14700

    david14700 Regular Member

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    reply

    Yeah, poor Camilla. I remember looking at a world ranking table a few years ago and seeing seven of the top 8 players were Chinese, with Camilla in at number 6.

    It must be hard not to feel like you're all alone against a whole team.
     
  6. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Personally, I think it's very hard to get the actual "proof" to punish player like this.

    The players can simply claim things like:

    1. lack of stamina
    2. mentally give up
    3. if players can lose both sets in 8 min, why can't we lose 1 set in 11 min???
    4. be able to play well for 1 set, does not mean must have the ability to match against world champ for 2 straight sets

    Unless a player is crying out about being treated "unfairly" (like He zhili in table tennis), all the so-call "assumption" are lack of actual proof, and could only be treated as "guess".
     
  7. Kiwiplayer

    Kiwiplayer Regular Member

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    All this whinging about the Chinese sounds a little bit like sour grapes to me. Still, ever since coming to the UK I've found there is some truth to the stereotype that we NZers have of the pommes ;)

    The answer is simple! Each country just needs to have 4-5 world class players/pairs in each event capable of winning such prestigious tournaments as the WC, AE or Olympics.

    Wayne Young
     
  8. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    I have to agree.

    I think "team strategy" is part of the game. If there's a short cut to save stamina, reduce risk, or avoid meeting contender in early round, why not? Fighting to death is good for the fans, but bully through with un-necessary early exist does not mean "smart".

    If IBF wants to punish the chinese pair, i really wonder how they going to name the charges just base on whatever their "guess" (even though, some others might think the same).

    In sports, there could be a lot of cases like this, whether it's a strategy or an "accident", no one can really tell 100% of the truth:

    1. Many times in soccer world cup / league matches, favortie contender "on purpose" (at least, I guess) lose to a weak team in the last round, to avoid meeting another favorite in the next round.

    2. At the end of NBA season, teams already clinch a spot in play off rested their all stars, to get prepared for playoff. Or, on purposely lose a game or so, to "choose" favorite opponent in play off.

    3. In car / bike racing, team players "blocking" opponents for teammates to win the champ.

    4. In gymnastics / diving, teammates on purposely to raise the tech. difficulties (while put him/herself into larger risk) to mess up opponent's confidence / routine order, to create better oppotunity for favorite teammates.
     
    #28 LazyBuddy, Aug 12, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2003
  9. woop.

    woop. Regular Member

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    I'm a relatively new badminton player, just taken it up in my late twenties and as such I don't have much knowledge of the international game. The only thing I would say is whilst there must be some argument for playing as a 'team', it must be a shame for any player to have to step onto the court knowing they are not allowed to play to their full potential. Don't we all, no matter what our level, simply want to play to you best? I for one am happy (ish) to lose a match as long I can walk off with my head held high knowing I gave it my all and could not have played any better.

    To have to put in a poor performance to allow a higher ranked player from my own nation through though, don't see how I could ever do that.
     
  10. blckknght

    blckknght Regular Member

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    i'd agree with that woop - i want to play good badminton in any game situation, bottom line, even if my opponents are much stronger. Sometimes you surprise yourself. And I also agree that in the situation we are talking about it is impossible to know whether or not the match was fixed. At this point it probably doesn't matter very much. what can they do? taking some sort of disciplinary action would be unjust, because who really knows what happened?
    g
     
  11. Bbn

    Bbn Regular Member

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    I am always wondering why despite Table Tennis like badminton being

    a minority sport in EU can have so many successful players like Swedes, Germans,

    Austrians, Greeks etc.How is badminton different fronm TT ?
     
  12. dlp

    dlp Regular Member

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    Years ago the opening few rounds of a major were often a formality for the top players. Now there are at least 20 players who can really push the number and with inconsistent seeding we see contenders going out or stretched in the first and second rounds.

    This means by the semis players have played 4 hard matches and therefore are physically struggling. A "fixed" semi at this point means they have a days recovery versus what could be another marathon match. This could be a huge advantage, more than taking illegal performance enhancing drugs for instance?

    There are multiple problems with match fixing:

    It can distort the eventual outcome of the event
    It provides no entertainment for the paying spectator
    It damages the image of the sport
    It can mean that players ordered to lose miss out on what could be their only chance

    For anyone who wasn't at the WC or hasn't seen some of the matches they may be wondering what all the fuss was about, believe me the china matches were absolutely blatantly thrown. In one instance in the ladies doubles the player didn't even attempt to return a shot! They could at least play the shuttle into the net!
     
  13. Neil Nicholls

    Neil Nicholls Regular Member

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    For things like the World Championships, and TC/UC/SC, instead of having a large entry and a knockout tournament, have a smaller entry and a league format. All play all. For the WC, where you can get top players/pairs from the same country, they have to play each other first.

    It would be hard to eliminate match throwing entirely however you arrange tournaments though.

    I think it is wrong of the IBF not to take action.
    I don''t think any action should be against the individual player, because they have been forced into the situation by their ruling body. The way things are, you can't go it alone. You have to have the blessing of your country's badminton authority to get into the top events.

    I'm less concerned about it happening in round 1 or 2 than in QF or SF.
    Top seeds got a bye in the first round anyway.
    It's already not a level playing field.
    Why should they get it so easy? If they are top seeds why do they need a bye?
    If someone drops out before the start and a replacement isn't available then someone has to get a bye, so why not a random non-seed?
     
  14. jamesd20

    jamesd20 Moderator

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    dlp, I also saw the womens doubles too, when they were waiting to return serve one of the girls, i dont remember which one, just stood, like she was waiting for a bus in the middle of the service court with racket by her side, once she didnt even attempt to move backwards, simply letting a shuttle go over her head. they simply reached and swipe a shot back, not attempting to play a proper game.
     

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