Carlton or Yonex??

Hello, if new comers don't play with people that are higher skilled than them, they will not improve. Nobody is asking you to be a coach or something, but surely you can give them a few tips since you're better than them?? How did you improve in the first plac? By playing better people most of the time rite??

Tom wrote:
>
> New comers know their own skill level and would
> not consider to play with people that are higher skilled then
> they are.

 

I'm having a hard time sympathizing with you Tom. You say that you have been injuired by others because they did not know their proper positions during the course of a game, thereby implying that YOU know the proper position. If you have knowledge that not only would help others but would keep them from endangering you, yet you refuse to share that knowledge, then I think you are primarily responsible for your own situation. Just because you are not a "certified" coach doesn't mean you can't help someone else enjoy the game more, and in turn, be a more skilled and enjoyable partner in doubles.

If you have attempted to help others before but your assistance was not well received, perhaps you need to re-think how you are communicating. Ask the less exerienced player if they would mind if you gave them a pointer or two, rather than bark out orders to them. Give them very clear and specific directions that would make sense to anyone, rather than your own abbreviated version using pet phrases or esoteric terminology that the newer player may not know.

 

I agree that coaching and advice becomes annoying when it is a) unsolicited; b) questionable in its logic; and/or c) not articulated or explained clearly.

That's why I suggested asking if it would be ok to give the newer player a pointer or two, rather than just arrogantly ordering the person around.

 

YONEX because i never used any good carltons before

 

Yonex.
I prefer Isometric shape rackets.

 

Modius, good point about lower skilled players playing higher skilled players to improve. On the other hand, one has to improve their skills(drops, clears etc..) in order to play games with higher skilled players. No one can just jump on a court and improve their skills just by playing with better people. Watch on the side lines and observe how the better players play the game. Recollecting what one saw and practice those cross court backhand drops, clears etc.. When one is ready and thinks he/she has improved the technical skills then apply those skills in game play. How I improved? I watched and practiced my skills and even went to take lessons to be tought the proper way of hitting clears, drops etc.. Then, I was confident and I know that I was ready to play the better players. At first, the people thought I was the same but I surprised them. I improved and I could keep up with them. They complimented me and told me keep it up. One can only play with better players comfortably and confidently if they know they have improved their shot making ability by practicing and being taught properly.

Brett, how can I be responsible for my own injuries, if the first couple of shots my partner I have not played with in my life comes jumping in front of me and swings freely and injures me? That has happened to me three times. Guess I have no luck with free swinging partners. Have you played with a partner that likes to talk and give tips to you during a match or in between points? You probably have. You didn't like it? I didn't. I don't want to be that type of badminton player. Of course, I can tell all the faults my partner made but that would not be respectful and courteous. I would like to make my partner enjoy the game more but they first have to know what to do and what not to do on the badminton court first. I have given my tips in the past and have asked courteously but feedback was not good. You have to understand that in order for someone to give guidance to another person about badminton you better be a good player or people won't like it. They would say, " Who are you to give me advice?" Of course, not in front of you. You probably won't see the people you gave advice out play with you now. I understand that helping people is the right thing to do but one has to be qualified to give advice.

I feel that my attitude might stink to some people but I know what I am doing. Being able to protect myself from further injuries and racquet clashes, I rather choose the people I play with. What ever floats your boats, go for it.

 

Tom, you implied that the people you refused to play with were not only beginners but people with whom you had played previously.

Last night I played doubles with a beginner partner who I coached, unsolicited, during both games. I repeatedly told him the following advice: a) don't hit soft, mid-depth serves, as they get rammed back down your face; b) don't hit soft, mid-depth clears, as they also get smashed for a winner; c) pay attention to your partner's communications - don't hit it if I scream "SHORT SERVE!" or "LONG!" or "MINE!" d) flick your wrist to gain more power on shots, particularly clears; and e) keep underhand drop shots lower [i.e., less than 1.7m above the net]. I was somewhat concerned about being bossy, but we were losing multiple points because of these sort of repeated, easy-to-fix errors and I wanted to be sure that he started understanding and implementing these very basic strategies, or he would never be able to improve. I also made a point of praising him quite a bit when he hit good shots and incorporated my suggestions. At the end of the game he thanked me for the help, so I guess I wasn't too pushy with the advice. Seven nights out of eight, I am not a "good" player for my league (I'm pretty inconsistent but when my game is occassionally "on," I can hold my own in pretty much any game in my league) but there are still times when I am noticing something strategic that my (better) partner doesn't notice, so I don't let our differences in experience or skill keep me from trying to give what I feel is good advice.

Some people don't like to be told what to do by anyone, but for most people, I think it all depends on how the advice is delivered. One of the guys I occasionally play with is one of the better players in the area and he frequently gives me unsolicited advice, particularly about positioning, where I concede I need some help. Despite needing some coaching, I don't appreciate his advice because he shouts it out, often mid-rally when it's not certain what the heck he is yelling, he uses pet phrases that aren't very clear, and he just doesn't communicate effectively. I've also received advice that is too obvious: when I have hit four straight serves into the net tape (I know, that's awful and inexcusable, considering the serve is purely under my control), I really don't need anyone telling me to serve "just four inches higher." However, there are also some people in my league whose advice, even if unsolicited, I always welcome because it is usually helpful.

Anyway, Tom, it sounds like you have a lot of people in your leagues/clubs who are a bit on the touchy side. I just like to improve my playing, help others and have fun.

 

Josh, you'd better get used to it. This happens all the time here, and I happen to think it's one of the great things about this forum. A topic that is initially shallow and uninteresting can suddenly diverge into another subject that provokes interesting debate.

 

Hmmm... well, this is a difficult problem. To be honest, I'd rather not play with lesser skilled partners, but if somebody comes up and asks me I will accept. I think of it as a payback to those who bothered to play with me when I was a newbie. I was lucky, I guess, as I played my first doubles matches with really skilled AND patient partners. On the other hand, I always made it perfectly clear beforehand that I was to be considered a loose cannon on a doubles court, so that they would know what they ventured into! And in the end, I got better... thanks to others. So Tom, as much as I can relate to what you're saying I still think your attitude sucks.

I often find it easier to play in a more mixed-doubles style if the partner is really unexperienced. There are some basic advice that I give to novices, if it proves necessary. It's sort of a "Doubles for Dummies" and I find that most people appreciate this as it instantly makes their game more enjoyable.

1. Serve low and short, and when you have served low and short, stay and cover the net.
2. Don't suddenly run backwards if you can't see where I am.
3. Don't try to hit hard. Just concentrate on hitting downwards.

I think these are advice that are simple enough to grasp so that they can actually be given ON COURT, perhaps between sets.

Serve variations, how to turn defense into offense, rotation, etc is too complicated to be explained during the game so I don't even try.

#1 is often enough to avoid giving away every serve. #2 is to avoid me or my racquet getting injured. #3 is to actually win some points. Perhaps it does not give the most memorable matches, but they will certainly be enjoyable.

 

Haha ... Josh, this always happens here. Guess you've got to tolerate the people here a little. Its all in good intent, but sometimes people just forget.

For me? Well, I've always preferred Yonex to Carlton. Guess its just that I'm very finicky about the kind of feel a racket can give me. Which is why I prefer Yonex.

Carlton's racket tend to come in a wave of similar ones in style of play and feel. Like they run this range for a few years and move on later. But while the current range is running, they are somehow atered towards a particular style of play. Which is seldom close to what I want.

I prefer Yonex as a result as they have a wide range of rackets that cater to different needs. They MP-100 and the Ti-10 are top of the line rackets, but they cater to vary different kinds of playing styles. The ISO Ti SP range also caters to different styles. Glad to say I found the MP-100 to be very close to what I want in a racket and it complements my preferred style of play very well.

The problem with Yonex is that their rackets tend to be overpriced. Though at the street level shops in Singapore, you can find the price of the MP-100 and the Carlton AS-Ti to be different by only SG$25. Whis miniscule in comparison to the differences in MRSP over in the States or Europe.

Hence, its immense popularity in South-East Asia over Carlton.

 

It's ok if people think I have bad attitude. I can't cater to everyone's tastes. I feel good myself and people I am around with are ok with how I act. As the topic of "Carlton or Yonex" has spun off into the "no coach, yes coaching" topic it moves into another spectrum of badminton. More and more people do agree that as a person progresses in skill one doesn't want to play with lesser players on a regular basis. Mag agrees with me and I'm sure a lot of people agree but don't want to post here. If one plays 4 matches in a 2 hour session, playing one match with a lesser skilled player is ok. Brett, I know you like to help people and that is great. But if I was your partner that you played with? I wouldn't be happy with your coaching because it gets a little irritating. Like I said, what floats your boat, do it.