oh come one you guys! do you take what the media gave you seriously??? if i were TH and LD, would we be patting each others back after a hard fought match if we really took the crap seriously??? i mean, the media thought they'd hype up the TH vs LD match... but what they dont understand is that, they dont need to do it because TH vs LD match would be always a classic...(given that TH doesnt walk out )
Umm, yeah well like I've been trying to say, I'm not trying to change your mind so why the need to provide evidence of what is simply my opinion? I haven't seen a lot of evidence from you yourself either. Your arguments are mostly comprised of opinions rather than facts and there's nothing wrong with that. The only thing that could possibly change my mind on Taufik is knowing him personally. So don't bother trying .
i agree with ssuly that the burden of winning a tournament really is on taufik's shoulders.. indonesia had never had another player as great as taufik since 1990's.... the expectation for the prodigy was veeeery high... and as far as i can see, only TH has the guts to promise his countrymen that he'll win a gold... even LD, i think, will be unsure of making that promise...
What a hypocrite post! Why the hell are you still posting here and replying to other people's posts if you are not trying to change other people's minds? Don't tell me you are just exercising your freedom of speech. What's the point of having freedom of speech if you cannot be bothered to have your voice heard, and what's the point of having your voice heard if you don't want to change other people's minds? Why don't you tell us what kind of evidence that can convince you? All I see is that you say something, then cooler counters it with some facts, then you say you don't believe the facts he gave. You don't seem to accept anyone's view as long as they are different from yours.
It looks like this thread is as interesting and as highly charged as the real battle between TH and LD.
I'm sorry if my explanation is kinda long and it might lose people easily. However, each paragraph is related to each other in order to explain step by step how we can understand one aspect of TH's "disappointing" behavior, respect, and view it positively to enjoy his presence in badminton community. That "disappointing" behavior is his lack of motivation in not so big events. My sole motivation to respond is because Cooler misunderstood TH by saying to phaarix: "TH deception might fool u, but not me. Yes, I notice." TH doesn't deceive his fans by fighting to the very end on big events, that's how TH entertains his fans with his unique expectation. I hope this will help to clarify. Thanks for your concern.
i agree with phaarix, cooler is kind of aggressive against taufik, although even I dont like Taufik's attitude problems, no one is perfect. sometimes media do come out with lots of nonsense especially when badminton is getting more and more popular there will be money to make if they write on a hot topic. 1) the LD fans hate Taufik blindly cause they think he hates LD 2) the TH fans hate LD fans blindly cause LD fans hate taufik 3) us badminton fans sit down and think what went wrong im sure we are all categorized under 3 which is for badminton fans who will sit down adn think right?
Then how do you explain TH's quitting of HK open and his total lack of competitiveness in the 3rd set of Japan open against Lin Dan?
thats b/c for ssuly's definition, HKO and JO aren't big events? but hey, regardless of how many weeks ahead TH had trained for this event, he still lose to LD whats the excuse this time?
yy_ling, what a great straight forward point! However, it's really hard as human to completely ignore our personal feelings, prejudices, etc. It's not a problem if we deeply think our hero is the best, but we just have to realize that people out there deeply think their hero is the best. Just be warned that the greatest enemy is ourselves who tend to spit out those deep thoughts to attack and hurt people.
LD fans hate Taufik blindly? Have you actually seen any LD fan who initiates attacks on TH? Every time there is an argument between LD, TH and their fans, the insitigator is almost always TH's fans or TH himself. Take this AG for example, TH was the one who told the reporter that he disliked LD. You cannot blame the media for reporting inflammatory remarks from famous people. Very few medias would make up stories to sell -- unless they want their credibility totally ruined. TH made an inflammatory remark against LD in public with the full knowledge that it would be reported everywhere. Then when he doesn't get his way, he just turns around and blaming the media for their honest report. I have to say this is really low.
Thanks for that... how friendly. You might not undertand and it's pretty obvious you don't, but I said I can't change cooler's mind. I didn't say I'm making my posts for no point whatsoever. Cooler obviously has his mind set straight and I'm unable to change that. And don't even think about saying I don't respect other people's views. I'm trying to defend my own as certain people *cough* are all to eager to attack them. I have no clue as to where you got that idea >_>. I may not personally agree with his facts but it doesn't mean I can't see where he got them. Besides it's quite obvious to me you don't respect my opinion a single bit. I've been refraining from using "evidence" as to why I think this way in my most recent posts because of this "attacking". It's people like you that ruin a discussion. And if you continue the way you're going you're going to get yet another thread locked. Thanks but no thanks, take your anger somewhere else. (Oh and I'm fully expecting a harshly worded response trying to patronize me further - If you really care so little for what I'm saying you wouldn't bother)
hydrocyanic, please be careful for distinguishing between player's mind and fan's mind. TH always admits the greatness of his opponent on court despite of his lost, TH also regards LD as the world's best player currently. However, some of TH's fans find excuses for him at smaller events because they realize TH's unique expectation (only motivated for big events).
You are welcome and I never pretended that I wanted to be friendly to you. After all, I was calling you out for being hyprocitical. Actually you can, cooler seems to be a reasonable and rational person. So if you could argue logically, objectively and with facts, I'm sure you can convince him -- you can convince me too. Again, argue your point with logic and objectivety and facts, you can set him and me straight. I never said you didn't respect other people's views, I just said you were not willing to accept them because they are different from yours. It's human nature to be right and truthful, that's why people tend to call you out when they think you are talking nonsense. I got that idea from your posts. I don't respect your opinion because it doesn't make sense. If you disagree with someone, you have to justify your disagreement. If you are disputing someone's version of facts, you have to either argue logically why their facts are wrong, or provide contradicting facts. You have done neither, that's why cooler and I don't hold your opinion very hightly. We are ruining a discussion? What discussion? In a proper discussion, people argue with logic and facts, your participation in this discussion lacks both, and you are calling us the ones ruining the discussion? I don't angry, I get even. Take your nonsense else where. I'm only giving you what you deserve. Don't start any trouble if you cannot handle any.
Always? I seem to remember that a few years ago in Japan open, TH was defeated by Chen Hong, and after the match, TH said he didn't try that hard and he let CH win because he felt sorry for CH. This argument doesn't fly at all. How do you define a big event? Is a big event one that TH has won? TH lost in WC and AG which are the biggest events by anyone's standard. What's his and his fans excuse for that? Honestly, I don't care when TH's fans finding excuses for TH's loses -- I find it amusing actually. What gets me uncomfortable is when TH and his fans start personal attacks against other players to justify TH's loses.
newplayer, as far as I know from the facts, TH is only hugely motivated in: 1. Events for his country: thomas cup, indonesia open. 2. Once in four years individual events: Olympics, Asean Games. 3. Old World Championship. (the new WC is held every year and TH says he is not interested anymore). 4. All England (the oldest mens single competition): this is the only one TH hasn't won yet. TH has less motivation even in other six stars open event except the Indonesian open that he won six times already.
