Annoyance...

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by Rob3rt, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,122
    Likes Received:
    1,345
    Location:
    Germany
    One thing that's bothered me for a very long time... It's not really a big issue but quite annoying.

    You know when you're warming up, you usually start with drives? It's probably the oldest trick in the book. Some players suddenly stop playing a drive and play a block or very slow push. The right thing to do would be to take a step forward and play a drive, but the players that do this will not get it back because the drive practically is going to be kind of a net kill. And since it's just warmup you are being nice and playing a slower upwards drive to keep it going and then they take a step forward and kill it in a way you can see they are trying to make a point and not trying to warmup. :rolleyes:
     
    offbad and kwun like this.
  2. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,081
    Likes Received:
    2,869
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Practice a soft push past the service line or lift it.

    If they play a block, they had better expect other shots.
     
  3. Borkya

    Borkya Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    458
    Likes Received:
    457
    Occupation:
    teacher
    Location:
    Xiamen, China
    Do you? Where I am people tend to start with clears. Then within a few minutes it turns to smashes (and return of smash) and then drives start showing up. I know different people have different warm-up preferences, but my club is made up of mostly competitive people so our warm-ups do resemble half court singles games: Net kills, smashes, all are game. I've noticed people tend to allow a bit more time for footwork warm-up (so not a lot of drops for the first few minutes) but I get really annoyed when my warm-up partner just keeps handing me easy shots that I don't have to work for to return. (Especially when it is a intermediate level guy that just keeps doing clear after clear. I hate constant clears in a warm-up.)

    I need a good warm up for a good day of playing, and before most of us step on the court, we've warmed up or muscles with some running or jumping. So I like when my partner makes me move in a warm-up, and I like when they make it tough for me. And most partners (in my club) prefer the same.
     
    phihag and LightSaber like this.
  4. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,122
    Likes Received:
    1,345
    Location:
    Germany
    Yes. This might shock you but the overwhelming majority of players in the clubs I play at do no warmup except the actual on-court warmup. What I mean by that, is that they step on court completely cold and start playing a few drives to not have to move too much at the beginning. Which is usually followed by drops and after that "long-short-short" or "lift, drop, short" to get moving. When my muscles are fully warmed up and I they do this, it's okay, but the general unspoken idea is that you agree on playing drives only. Then they try - why, I don't know - to gain an unfair advantage by breaking this pattern and trying to kill the return. It's like when you are playing clears with your warmup partner and he suddenly plays and punch clear to your backhand and jump smashes your slightly shorter reply. Dude, this is warm-up, not half-court singles. You are not trying to make a point, but to keep the rally going.
     
    offbad likes this.
  5. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2015
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    249
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Wow.

    We usually actually warm up off the court for a bit before getting rackets. Then (opinion as a coach) don't start out with clears because they require quite some power, but start in the middle of the court to get the arms warmed up. Move to bigger shots later, to prevent injuries.

    When we get into the playing around a bit part of the warm up there will be some kills now and then, but not too many, just to warm up the speed insertions and stuff. We try to keep it fun.
    Although there is one guy who always kills every shot in warm-up he gets but he's got some big social issues from being on the spectrum.
     
    phihag and Cheung like this.
  6. endFX

    endFX Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2018
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    94
    Occupation:
    Badminton tryhard
    Location:
    Germany
    Most people in my club also don't warm up off court at all (on intermediate level).
    Thats why I stretch and warm up a little at home before even going to the gym.

    We mostly start with clears and mix in other shots later on.
    Starting with drives would be fine as well but killing the shuttle during warmup is just bullshit until the very end of it.
    For me the ideal is to slowly raise the intensity starting from mid range clears and end with half court single.

    Unfortunately most people don't understand it.
    Some start with full clears that half the time will go long.
    Of course I still take em to keep the play going but eventually I will end up standing at the baseline and my partner at his service line.
    If he then plays a netshot I don't even go for it.
    Others try to win points right from the start, which is even more annoying.
    If you start with a high shot to the middle just to get the play going they instantly smash it to your face.
    They would run across the whole court and make huge jumps and lunges without any warm up.
    To me it's a mysterium how they don't injure themselves.

    I came to the conclusion that if I feel my partner is not following my pace I'll adapt to his style but let all shots drop to the ground that I don't feel ready for.
    When my warm up partner lets the shuttle drop like this I take it as a signal that he is not ready yet and wants some closer shots.

    To sum this up I would say that a lot of people have different ideas of warmup.
    Some players like me have a pattern they follow others just fool around or play like keeping score.
    Find someone who has the same style like you or make the best out of the partner you get.

    If both players warmed up before picking up the racket, it's obviously a total different thing.
    Sadly I only see this with more serious and competitive players.
     
    offbad and phihag like this.
  7. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2014
    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    668
    Location:
    Germany
    Why do they do that?

    All professional coaches I've met here in Germany advise starting with push shots & drives in a half-court, citing a number of reasons:
    • Reduced injury potential, especially for beginners and those who skip the warmup (= getting the pulse up, mentally ready, often in the form of various running exercises) and/or activation (= fast movements, badminton-specific).
    • Very high frequency of shuttle contact means that you're inevitably getting into the right mindset. The opposite in frequency, clears, can be played while basically being asleep, since the interval between shots is rather high.
    • Many quick and short movements serve as a (second) activation phase.
    • This follows the general training theory of starting with the simple things and going to more complex ones.
    As a result, when I see good players, they always start with pushes&drives. They don't kill shots though – the point is to get ready, not to win the rally. If you see people starting with clears here, these are inevitably hobby players and players in the lowest ~2 leagues – in other words, people who don't have regular coaching.

    This does not seem to be specific to Germany either; if I see professional players from all countries knocking up behind the scenes, they will always start with drives (although admittedly, the players in the German Bundesliga and other top tournaments/leagues are very heavily skewed towards European). BWF's coaching recommendation starts with drives too.

    @Borkya So what is the rationale for Chinese players to start with clears? Is this shared by the professional coaches in the national & regional teams?
     
    s_mair, offbad, endFX and 1 other person like this.
  8. endFX

    endFX Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2018
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    94
    Occupation:
    Badminton tryhard
    Location:
    Germany
    Perfectly reasonable. :)
    I will try to convince people in my club to do more drives.
     
  9. Kento

    Kento Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    London
    The question that springs to my mind upon reading all of the above is this:

    What do we commonly see top professional level players do pre-match when they are on court, regardless of their nationalities etc.?

    They would seem to be the best role-models for us to emulate, do you not agree?

    You might well say that they have probably been previously engaged in other warm-up activity prior to coming onto the court and you might well be correct but with regard to the routines they follow when hitting a shuttlecock across the net towards one another just before beginning their game, it is my honest opinion their practice should be seen as the ideal one to do.
     
  10. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2015
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    249
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Sorry, thats ridiculous.

    They have been warming up for who knows, up to an hour? back stage, you have no idea what happens there.

    The only reason for their hits before starting the match is getting a feel for the size, lights and wind on the court. Nothing to do with warming up.
     
    offbad and phihag like this.
  11. Kento

    Kento Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    London
    I did say that they might be warming up prior to coming on court.

    However, their routine on court seems to involve a variety of shots consisting of firstly, high clears then drives (both backhand and forehand) followed by net shots (backhand and forehand) and so on etc.. Check any video on the BWF channel and you will see any two players doing this.
     
  12. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,122
    Likes Received:
    1,345
    Location:
    Germany
    Yeah, probably exactly why phihag said, to get a feel for the drift. Why play drives when you are already fully warmed up? They get nothing out of this. Can't really compare us to the pros here, sometimes they are already sweating when they appear on the tv court.
     
    offbad likes this.
  13. Kento

    Kento Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    London
    Probably due to fear of failure and the humiliation they might suffer by letting their country down ;).

    Look, these professionals maintain themselves in tip-top condition both physically and mentally. Their diets are strict with every meal being pre-decided for them and their liquid intake closely monitored to ensure a sufficient level of hydration within their bodies.

    The same, alas, cannot be said for the majority of us ordinary players.

    What I tend to do is to weight-train for muscular strength (focusing mostly on the trunk and the legs) prior to doing a session of badminton, be it training or actual game. In this way, my body is already warmed up and ready to engage in the badminton. This means I have no qualms about starting my knock-ups with long, high clears followed by drives and blocks with net-play so that when the actual training/match starts, I am already supple and alert, both physically and mentally.

    There are far too many 'chubby' players to be seen on courts these days and so it is no wonder that they sustain frequent strains and other such injuries during the course of their sessions due to their lack of desire to use their feet to position themselves correctly for each and every shot that they play.

    They are hell-bent on trying to smash the shuttlecock to smithereens in every which way possible as if the name of the game is 'Smash-into-ten' not badminton.

    My advice to anyone who wants to play this great sport to any serious level is to take a long, hard look at themselves in a mirror (preferable full-length) and avow to improve their physical conditioning asap if they find themselves slacking in that department.
     
    #13 Kento, Jan 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
  14. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,122
    Likes Received:
    1,345
    Location:
    Germany
    More so the the fear of injury... and fear of letting the country down, when you are called Lee Chong Wei. :p
     
  15. Kento

    Kento Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    London
    I feel for the bloke, I really do.

    I hope he makes a swift full recovery.
     
    Rob3rt likes this.
  16. SnowWhite

    SnowWhite Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2018
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    London
    I actually prefer to start with clears. I warm up less with the idea of getting my body warm and being 24 yrs old I don't generally feel like I'm 'cold'. Though that approach might not be very good for my body.

    Regardless, for me, I 'warm up' more with the idea of getting feeling in my shots. With feeling in mind it actually makes much more sense to me to start with clears, because it's one of the easiest shots to get the timing right, especially because you have much more time to play them compared to drives. Of course you don't have to play backline to backline on your first shot, but I find it helps to first get the timing and the feeling on overhead shots, before moving on to shots where you have less time.

    This way you start very lazy mentally and slowly work toward the mental edge and focus necessary to play fast drives reminiscent of actual gameplay.

    I actually prefer to start with clears, move on to smashes and drops, then do some drives, some net play, and briefly back to drives before starting the match.
     
    visor and Kento like this.
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    21,081
    Likes Received:
    2,869
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Are you sure? LOL
     
  18. Kento

    Kento Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    London
    I am friends with 2 ex-England national team players and this is what they have told me is par for the course for the England team. Now, we do not even figure on the world badminton stage so if that is what our national squad dietitians are doing, then the same must surely be going on with other, stronger national squads around the world too, no?
     
  19. Rob3rt

    Rob3rt Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,122
    Likes Received:
    1,345
    Location:
    Germany
    And then there's rumors that KKK was going to clubs and partying hard before important matches and eating pizza all day long. :D
     
  20. Kento

    Kento Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2018
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    London
    Yes, I agree with that. With each individual clear you play, your sense of timing does improve and you are able to 'ease' yourself into the correct frame of mind for what is to follow.
     

Share This Page