A look back on the 21 point rally system after WC06

indra said:
The 21 system is ABSOLUTELY "NOT INTERESTING"
The 21 system is too quick
while Players have not sweated yet, the game is over
The bottom line is CHANGE it to the 15 score system.....
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Well, I like the 15 point system, but I think it should still be open to discussion on how to improve it...it's just...how much input did the players have on this before IBF decided in their most wise decision to go f' around with the game? (If there actually was a lot of input before the decision, excuse me then.)

samkool said:
stop using volunteers. implement a linesman association like other sports, where they are trained, paid, and randomly drawn for matches.
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Oh how I'd love to get paid to watch badminton... ;)
 
FYI, the NSS was given a one year trial period before it was officially adopted this May, 2006, at the same time the 2006 Thomas Cup Challenge Round was played in Japan. It was adopted with 100% of the votes. So, if you must blame some one, go after your own national badminton association officials who voted for the new system. All the votes from Canada, USA, Japan, Denmark, England, etc., etc. voted for the NSS. The best way to revert back to the old system is to go after your own officials and curse them for selling you out.:D
 
franxon said:
Rally point system has its merits, as been said enough. i'm not against it. however, what i'm not sure is if it has to be 21x3. 21x5 looks like a better solution.
if you study the after-match statistics, you might be surprised like me by the fact that in many matches the winner and the loser are only seperated by less than 5 total rallies won. the difference was only 1 rally/point in a match i watched! games like this are too tight to tell. why isn't there in the world a champion for 10 m short running? because it's impossible to tell who's the best short runner in 10 meters and you gotta let them run 100m!
the current 21x3 NSS sometimes looks like a 10 meter short running.
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I agree with Franxon and his good comment on the number of rallies... :)
I hope IBF realizes this good point..

taneepak said:
, the NSS was given a one year trial period before it was officially adopted this May, 2006, at the same time the 2006 Thomas Cup Challenge Round was played in Japan. It was adopted with 100% of the votes. So, if you must blame some one, go after your own national badminton association officials who voted for the new system. All the votes from Canada, USA, Japan, Denmark, England, etc., etc. voted for the NSS. The best way to revert back to the old system is to go after your own officials and curse them for selling you out.:D
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Thanks Taneepak for your optimistic idea of how we can change the system :rolleyes:... You atleast suggested a way ie., request/suggest or make IBF hear our woes, atleast the players should realize this and request their country boards to change their minds asap for the sake of badminton. They cant make changes and expect other countries to vote against their ideas, probably the countries may not wanted to stand out on voting??

Badminton is the fastest raquet sport and needs you warmed up... In comparison it seems that unlike volleyball where you have 6 people playing on each side with best of 3 or 5 sets and in TableTennis you have 5x21 it absolutely makes sense to have atleast 5x21 for mens... This is one good suggestion, way better than the current scenario where it adds way too much pressure especially at the end,
BUT badminton actually stands out with the 15 points system where the players have a chance to come back if they make a mistake.

We have alllllll clearly witnessed how it changed from a fun sport to an agressive sport in WC06. I hope whatever happens happens for the best of badminton :(
 
twobeer said:
My stance on 21 rally scoring hasn´t changed.

In essence it shortens the games and games where players are closely match it is VERY common to go to 22,23,24,25 etc.. to win a game (in many cases even in the decider).

This causes excitment for the crowd, which is posivite (so from a marketing perspective to the non-badminton community I have to admit it have some advantages).

But as the game is shortened and points are more important, it will also make controversial line-calls, serve-judging, net-rolls etc. become a much much bigger factor than with the 3x15 scoring. So to me the 21x3 system is inferior to separate evenly matched players (to really find out which one is the best), and the "luck" factor comes more into play..

With the old system.. Winning at least two rallies in sequence to get a point, minimized the effect of a bad line-call, a lucky-shot, a service-fault in doubt etc so errors or flukes felt less decisive..

/Twobeer
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I agree. Take the match between taufik and chen hong as an example, they went to 19 all in the decider and chen hong won 21-19 in the end. The game was very very tight. but in terms of quality, I think the game was very poor. Both players didnt play their best and not much skills were showed. moreover, every set finished too quickly. With this 21 points system, it is obvious that badminton is not as physically competitive as before. So, if there is a petition for the old 15 system, i will definitely sign it.
 
taneepak said:
FYI, the NSS was given a one year trial period before it was officially adopted this May, 2006, at the same time the 2006 Thomas Cup Challenge Round was played in Japan. It was adopted with 100% of the votes. So, if you must blame some one, go after your own national badminton association officials who voted for the new system. All the votes from Canada, USA, Japan, Denmark, England, etc., etc. voted for the NSS. The best way to revert back to the old system is to go after your own officials and curse them for selling you out.:D
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So um...where do I start chewing them out? Sigh...I just started badminton last year so I've been in my own little world trying to get better. I heard about high schools accepting rally point system for volleyball, so I might've just mixed everything I heard into v-ball as well =P Thx for the info tho.

Btw, is there already a petition that we can sign? And if not, should I bother to make one? (Like, a layout similar to a guestbook?) I mean, an online petition probably won't gain too much attention from IBF unless you get like...thousands of signatures... :confused:
 
Aozora said:
So um...where do I start chewing them out? Sigh...I just started badminton last year so I've been in my own little world trying to get better. I heard about high schools accepting rally point system for volleyball, so I might've just mixed everything I heard into v-ball as well =P Thx for the info tho.

Btw, is there already a petition that we can sign? And if not, should I bother to make one? (Like, a layout similar to a guestbook?) I mean, an online petition probably won't gain too much attention from IBF unless you get like...thousands of signatures... :confused:
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Badminton Canada is the badminton authority in Canada. Players in Canada should contact Badminton Canada for any proposed changes to the rules or laws. The current 21 rally point system can be replaced on meeting any one of the following conditions :
1. That 75% of total votes at a special general meeting approves the change. Any such approved change can only be effective from May, 2011.
2. That 100% of total votes at a special general meeting approves the change. In this case the change can be effective immediately.

The right way to do this is for each badminton club in Canada affiliated to Badminton Canada to put in writing in a letter to Badminton Canada. With all the inputs from its affiliated clubs, Badminton Canada should then take a position reflecting the wishes of the majority of the clubs. Badminton Canada should then vote the way the clubs want it to vote. This should be the way.
 
Hmm...I wish I could do something, but since I'm not in any affiliated badminton clubs... T_T I shall hope for the best then... =) thx taneepak, useful information =D
 
taneepak said:
FYI, the NSS was given a one year trial period before it was officially adopted this May, 2006, at the same time the 2006 Thomas Cup Challenge Round was played in Japan. It was adopted with 100% of the votes. So, if you must blame some one, go after your own national badminton association officials who voted for the new system. All the votes from Canada, USA, Japan, Denmark, England, etc., etc. voted for the NSS. The best way to revert back to the old system is to go after your own officials and curse them for selling you out.:D
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Yes, it is very revealing symptom, "adopted with 100% of the votes". Actually it means that all these votes are for decoration only, the decision has been taken before (by whom?) and all these meetings can do nothing but "adopt with 100% of the votes". The same story with IBF -> BWF transition... It reminds me something... Back to the USSR?..:confused:

The problem is even wider than the NSS itself. The problem is: how the IBF (or BWF) works, what is their mechanism of making decisions, who and how generates all these ideas which then are "adopted with 100% of the votes". I can agree that some of the ideas are maybe not bad, or even good (NSS is one of the worst, IMHO), but the way how they are invented, discussed and promoted is not good - it is simply wilful and not professional.:mad:
 
taneepak said:
FYI, the NSS was given a one year trial period before it was officially adopted this May, 2006, at the same time the 2006 Thomas Cup Challenge Round was played in Japan. It was adopted with 100% of the votes. So, if you must blame some one, go after your own national badminton association officials who voted for the new system. All the votes from Canada, USA, Japan, Denmark, England, etc., etc. voted for the NSS. The best way to revert back to the old system is to go after your own officials and curse them for selling you out.:D
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You must be kidding! Have you ever known or seen what happens to anybody who dissents? You can talk to some of the elite USA players, officers of the USAB, and court officials to find out what happened to them when they held a different opinion than the USAB.

IMO these are very autocratic and very badly managed organizations. If one tries to bring up a different opinion or idea than the powers of these organizations, you better be ready to forget about being part of any badminton activity in the future; or they will make it "hell" for you to continue playing or being involved. I have seen too many examples.

Why do you think all these votes are 100% to one side? How often do you see in a true democratic society having 100% voting to one opinion, and zero votes for dissenting opinions? After the experimantation period was over, did the IBF take a vote on the 5x7 system? I doubt it. Was anybody allowed to propose the 5x7 to be voted on? I doubt it.
 
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Having gone through all the posts, I think the majority of us agreed that the NSS system is not good for the game. However I think most of us also agreed that NSS may still be acceptable if the objectives of increase TV coverage, and increase sponsorships is achieved. Have anyone any data to indicates that TV coverage and sponsorship is on the increase?
 
2NDround said:
Having gone through all the posts, I think the majority of us agreed that the NSS system is not good for the game. However I think most of us also agreed that NSS may still be acceptable if the objectives of increase TV coverage, and increase sponsorships is achieved. Have anyone any data to indicates that TV coverage and sponsorship is on the increase?
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Agreed! :D The NSS was there to save some time for TV coverage... :) :p
 
I think it is backward to go back to the old system. If the current system is too short, increase it to 25 (but WS to remain 21), but keep the point-per-rally. 5 sets are too much for badminton. Do you really want matches to last for at least 2 hours like tennis?
 
taneepak said:
FYI, the NSS was given a one year trial period before it was officially adopted this May, 2006, at the same time the 2006 Thomas Cup Challenge Round was played in Japan. It was adopted with 100% of the votes. So, if you must blame some one, go after your own national badminton association officials who voted for the new system. All the votes from Canada, USA, Japan, Denmark, England, etc., etc. voted for the NSS. The best way to revert back to the old system is to go after your own officials and curse them for selling you out.:D
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Before the start of this season my club secretary wrote to the chief executive of badminton england about the NSS and the vote for it. In his reply he revealed that England did NOT actually vote for the system as the council of the IBF was the body that held the vote, and England has no member on this council. Badminton England were only able to ask for more time to consider the decision at the IBF AGM, and by then the decision was already made. And the chief executive also said Badminton England only became aware of the proposals to change to the NSS in November 2005 - so how was there a one year trial period Taneepak?

I therefore would like to know who the members of this council are, as these are the people that are responsible for voting this in, and potentially decimating my local league. Many players may be lost in my area as they will not have this system imposed on them.
 
I have done my research...if indeed the IBF council voted for the system, then these are the people that voted:

Dr Kang Young Joong - Korea
Korn Thapparansi - Thailand
Punch Gunalan - Malaysia
Torsten Berg - Denmark
Robin Bryant - Australia
Rudy Hartono - Indonesia
Roger Johansson - Sweden
Cephas Lar - Nigeria
Paisan Rangsikitpho - USA
Gustavo Salazar - Peru
Tong Wai Lun - Hong Kong
VK Verma - India
Erak Weikesinghe - Sri Lanka
Edgar Aglipay - Philippines
Bang Soo Hyun - USA (?)
Emilia-Stavroula Founta - Greece
Peter Gacheru - Kenya
Raj Gaya - Mauritius
Puzant Kassabian - Bulgaria
Dieter Kespohl - Germany
Horst Kullnigg - Austria
Li Lingwei - China
Anne Smillie - Scotland
Wayne Somers - Canada
Junichiro Yamada - Japan
Steven Yeo - Singapore

So no representative from England.
 
so adjust number of points to fit 5 sets, i.e 5x15pt in rally point system.
I just think that due to the unexpected nature of games in rally point system you need to allow more space for a player to recover from bad start / bad set. so 5 sets can be very good for that matter.
 
yuval_ba said:
so adjust number of points to fit 5 sets, i.e 5x15pt in rally point system.
I just think that due to the unexpected nature of games in rally point system you need to allow more space for a player to recover from bad start / bad set. so 5 sets can be very good for that matter.
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I agree with that. Rally point system and 5 x 15pt will be much better, or maybe even 7x11 pt :D : then you have to play a minimum of 44 rallies, by now 2x21=42 rallies.

The problem with 5x15 or 7x11 or so is that the time length will be more unpredictable then with 3x21.

But like in tennis, the more (and shorter) games the more exciting points you get.
 
I think the Old Scoring System is still the best though. Although sometimes it takes 1.5 hours to 2 hours. It makes the game more interesting. :)
 
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