If my memory serves me right, Alexis de Tocqueville once said, "People will believe a simple lie rather than a complicated truth." I wish he was here to participate in the discussion! In reality, I was somewhat shocked and disappointed by Candra and Sigit's loss, largely because I was hoping a win could get Candra up again (he had a very sorry 2004 with the Thomas Cup loss and non-participation in the Olympics). But I don't know if I buy the theory of a conspiracy to put the US men's doubles team on top. People are likely to espouse such ideas when upsets happen but I think one point we might be missing is, if there is bribery involved in this case, who's making the payouts? The US Badminton Federation? IBF? Bookmakers? Substantial sums must be involved for bribery to take place and I'm not sure if the US bad. fed. or IBF have enough funding for this. As for bookmakers, I can't fathom the idea of someone placing enough money on a badminton match to want the influence the outcome of one! (Feel free to prove me wrong if you do know of any though - maybe I could try my hand one of these days.) Yes, we all know what a US victory could mean: better publicity, greater awareness of and involvement in the sport, more sponsors, more cash and more visibility... but these would be events that happen (hopefully) in the long run and not in the immediate aftermath. I would think that if Choong Tan Fook and co. were convinced to throw their games with the promise of monetary incentive, they would want the money right away...?
That was my conclusion, also. The umpire said "Fault, receiver". As far as I know, moving before the shuttle is struck is the only thing that can cause such a call. I suppose if you're already standing on one of the lines, that might do it, too. Moving prematurely seemed to be the obvious fault. That is often what brings about a player running madly to the back line for a backhand retrieval and what prompts a player to make a counter accustion of a fake before the serve. If the call was not justified, the umpire who gaveth also tooketh away since later in the match, the double-hit he called Nova on was an incorrect call as one can see from the replay. An honest mistake by the umpire, though. I might have made the same call in his place. I think he was reacting to the funny bounce the shuttle took off Lilyana's strings as often happens when a shuttle's flight is altered immediately prior to it being hit. The replay showed no such disturbance in the shuttle's flight, however, between the time that Nova missed it and Lilyana hit it. No harm done. The Indonesians were well on their way to winning that game.
Vtec101, i've got the answer from Kwun in this thread and in another thread about Tony's status http://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26221...Thanks for your attempt in explaining.. As far as I know "Residency" does not mean you are already a Citizen. Having a PR or GC is one form of Residency, however it is a process, at least in the U.S., to becoming a Citizen, but not officially one until you are sworn in...And i thought playing for the U.S. requires one to be already a U.S. Citizen, but i guess that wasn't the case..Regarding other players playing for other countries, like you mentioned, i do not know their status or their requirements, could be the same as in U.S. BTW Vtec101, it's no big deal to me, but i don't understand with the attitude??..Hmm, did i ever accused the tournament as being a farce??..If i sounded like i did in my post, then pardon me, as i never intended it to be. All i did in this thread and in another was post/brought up some "buzz" as i heard from other people's point of view, as what they saw out there on the court, and this "buzz" only mentioned about the MD Final only, not other events(as a matter of fact, other people as well that i'm not familiar with are wondering also about the MD Final). And i myself from the beginning after hearing it tried not to believe it and hope that it isn't true..Maybe other people don't want to bring it out to the forefront/public, like i did, rather kept it to themselves.
Did you ever accuse the tournament to be a farce? No, just the MD. It seems to be your opinion the way you present it not just other's opinions. The problem I have is that all this talk is tarnishing alot of players' reputation. Even when JR (if it really was him) posted that they tried their best, there are still doubters like you trying to put doubt in people's minds. So unless you can read minds or have proof that the MD was "fixed", then you shouldn't be bad mouthing the players. Sorry if I got personal or gave an attitude, but unless there is proof, people should watch what they say.
Well, to be specific the MD Final, actually. Again, pardon me if in this thread i "may" sound like it's coming out of my own opinion or idea. Perhaps i'm the only one "brave" or "stupid" enough to put a *front* for others who may not want to have their opinions be heard..If not for the fact that i heard from some other people who wondered also, I probably not post it here. Besides, like what Kwun mentioned earlier, it's a useless attempt by me(or anyone) if i decided to go solo on this ridiculous but "brain-wrecking" topic, which we probably won't know the real truth or not... Anyways...
.....no, i'm just *tired* of going round and round neverending with this thread *and* the other thread..... ...
I believe we can all agree that the 2005 WC is one 'whirlwind' tournament will be in our mind for a long time. It has international drama, mystery, history making, character assassination (who hates GaoLing), whirlywind, plus many unmentioned sensitive schemy plots I still can't get over the comment by taufik(??) that it's so drafty here that you can fly a kite. LOL
One thing we can all learn from this is to remember that "people, even Men's Doubles badminton players, are innocent until proven guilty." No one can accuse them of wrong doing, in the guise of "an idea" or "a civil discussion point" and think that it's ok. Doing so is a personal attack on their integrity and is very, very offensive to them (and as we've seen here, to their fans). If those posters, who insinuate that the MD match was fixed, get offended by what some of the other posters here are saying about them, imagine how it feels to be accused of fixing or cheating in a very public and important world sports event. Can you imagine how Tony/Howard, Sigit/Candara will feel if or when they get a chance to read all your posts? We should all respect them more by giving them the benefit of the doubt (or at least, by not publicly accusing them without solid evidence). They've dedicated a lifetime in order to excel in badminton.
I think we should stop all these topics or post in regards of the MDs of WC weather its fixed or not. Lets all move foward and we will see who is going to win in the next Major Open.
No, just stop. There's too much drama already. As hard as it is for me to believe, it's fact that Tony and Howard beat the # 19, #1, #4, and #2 doubles teams in the world, in succession. It's the impossible dream but to say all of them were in some grand conspiracy, that's even more impossible. Of course Candra and Sigit, Jens and Martin, Luluk and Alven, and Choon and Tan are great players. All four teams are superior in combined skill, talent and experience. But it's not all about skill, talent and experience. It's about winning and Tony Gunawan knows how to win. He won with a (relatively speaking) lessor player who's improved tremendously under Tony's guidance. Tony and Howard used their strengths which is Tony at the net and Howard smashing away and driving the shuttle in the back. The were aggressive and attacked their opponents and they won. This is what the audience saw, this is what we will see on DVD. Can we just leave it at that? Finally, let's just say, if, even IF there was some great conspiracy and everyone let Tony and Howard win, I say GREAT!!! Because if they were able to con that many people into letting them win, then they deserve to win because that con and actually getting away with it is much harder than actually beating the #1, #2, #4 and # 19 doubles teams in the world!
