Charlie, you've got a point there,I now think price should be included, but only touched upon. The price varies across different places and I suspect UK is one of the very few places where Victor and Yonex have a significant disparity in prices. Paul, you have stated Victor does not have any control over what you post numerous times, but we just don't believe you. This judgment has not come over merely skimming through 5 posts of yours. It has come over many comments on the forums and on your website. Whilst I do hear occasional positive comments to Yonex, the overwhelming majority is positive/very positive towards Victor and neutral/negative towards Yonex. (Got loads of examples, but I won't state them here). I have followed and trusted your information for about 2 years before I started turning against you about July last year. The turning has gradually happened as I got stronger and could form my own opinion (which I think is better than below grand prix level players), as well as when team 'Victor Fanboys' started going overboard on the forum. I have definitely read your comments on the VT80 being your favorite for YY, and the Nanoray range wasn't great. Look, I do agree with you on certain things: I pretty much agreed with the Nanoray comment at that time (before NR900 and NRSP were released). I also agree with your comment on the VT80, only because you have not tried the 4U version of the ZF II. But overall, I do not. I have no clue where you get the information such as a large majority preferring TK9000 over ZFII, the Yonex range not doing so well recently, as well as the lack of interest in the Yonex catalog. In Hong Kong, Canada and India, I have heard positive comments from Yonex releases, such as the NR900 (my personal favorite), the ZF II (which I think is the best overall), the Duora 10 and the VT80 Etune. People are definitely looking forward to Yonex releases according to my book. The marketing part: Labeling even balance and head-light (defense) isn't a very good way to sell a racket. Control and Speed obviously sound better from a marketing standpoint. I see no reason why the market leader YY has an obligation to be totally honest. They are promoting a product, and they should expect to be biased towards themselves. So now you get to see my opinion on why I (or we) think you are biased.
Sorry to hear Paul get so much hate. I really enjoyed Paul's reviews back in the day... and I feel like they are useful opinions to new players as they often touch on what a racket should be. If Yonex repaints a racket, that sucks. However, if you are buying a player racket, you are probably buying it more for the looks (plus they are top spec'd rackets). I would also argue that Victor is worse when it comes to player (false) advertising (YYS only played with his racket for long enough to make people buy it, same with LYD. (did Bao ever use his named racket?)). Even after you think you have the correct racket, you could be off, because top level players often have their own spec'd racket (or regional KRP) Imho, you play with what works for you. If you want to buy a racket that looks like someone else's, be satisfied with the looks. I personally jumped off the Yonex wagon because it started to be out of my price range. What I found was Yonex and Victor were both very usable, Lining and Adidas were mostly usable. I personally bet you could find an agreeable racket from any quality badminton maker. I am super excited for the day I get to test the D10. From what I read on the forms it has more potential to be a game changer than the Js12 (Which I am more likely to buy). It is great to hear more about this racket, and I would also love to see the final settlement of whether LCW is actually using a D10 or not.
Hey Paul, did you call Victor out for making a repainted bs12 in disguise of js yys? If you did please make sure that you put it in the Victor jetspeed Yys thread yea? We don't want any of them getting away with it.
ha ha, I strung YYS rackets at the All Englands. He was definitely using BS12 and they had certainly seen better days. Guys, be careful what you say here because some of your comments are bordering on calling me a liar. You don't know me, you don't know my sponsorship arrangement with Victor as a coach - note the words carefully. I will say this one last time. My website belongs to me. Nobody has influence on what I write. If I review a racket and I believe it's poor, the manufacturer may ask me not to go to print. This has happened twice in the past. As a sponsored coach with Yonex, as with Victor now, nobody contacted me and asked me to change a review or hype a product. I do not get paid by anybody for my website, which many find very useful. It's funny how nobody said I was biased when I was writing as a Yonex sponsored coach. I was with them for more years than I can remember. I have a long and happy history with Yonex spanning back to 1982. I still love the brand. That seems to be overlooked. I'm done defending myself here because this thread is about Duora 10, a racket I reviewed recently after testing it for three weeks. My review was fair and has received a lot of agreement from players. Duora 10 has not sold as well as Yonex expected - fact. I like the concept and thinking behind the design. Some players have already stated that their racket spinning is such they will not play with it - another fact. To those who've attacked me, I don't bear grudges. We all have opinions based on perception. But, you don't know the facts and assumption can be dangerous. Paul www.badminton-coach.co.uk
@paulstewart64 Right. Some are/were close or even hinting, but I'm definitely not. And again on and on with the "my sponsor's got nothing on me" jingle. What's happened is that, you started by taking a potshot (or, in simple english, negative view) at an offering that's a competitor to your current sponsor. (ie. "why so many are lusting after the LCW version when he doesn't use the Duora 10 at all."). Then you try to mask it by saying "there's no denying it's a good looking racket and plays well too!". Thereafter you mentioned that the Duora10's aren't doing so well "Duora 10 has not sold as well as Yonex expected - fact". If it plays well, why would it not sell well? Clearly/vaguely double standards on whatever you have written. Haven't pushed any words into your mouth, I just quoted them as is. My point is pretty direct: Victor has its P coded racquets, Yonex has its 0-line racquets. So then, what is your point by putting out that post? Very close is NOT EQUAL to the same. Period. There's 2 terms in English: similar and congruent. To the untrained noob who happens to gloss over the thread and posts, it serves as a stark reminder to think twice to purchase your sponsor's competitor's offering. Effect achieved. (now allow me to recommend you another frame......) Your current background is what makes things difficult and complicated for you: you CANNOT have an opinion. You're not entitled to one. Lewis Hamilton cannot say that Ferrari cars suck and AMG makes better cars. This is equivalent to me having Yonex sponsorship and going "Hey news flash! Your SG/TW/UK/DE coded BS12's, ahem, on "informed decision" and "authority", are close, but NOT THE SAME as what your idols are holding!!! Mind blown!!!" Using the old adage of "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday", shouldn't everyone in the Old Continent at the very least be holding a Bravesword 12/L/N by now? You've never really commented clearly on how your sponsor does financially (mostly how "whoa, they listened, holy cow God save the queen but our requests have come back answered!"; but always chimes in when Yonex's concerned ("yeah the O L D days were gold, how the Speeds were pissing on the Rays day in day out..."). In my personal opinion, you trying to mention the old times with Yonex is akin to you salvaging the situation. Because obviously fire cannot stop fire, you turned to water to water down the furore that is a post that is in line with what you sponsor would've liked seeing. I certainly have no grudge on you seeing as how far we are geographically apart, I only have "differing opinions" to how you craft your views and posts on here, the authoritative place for badminton. And if I may hit a raw nerve seeing as how Yonex starts signing top players and switching them over (ie. Debby, PV Sindhu, Srikanth, Chou Tien Chen, etc...), my guess is you were dropped/not renewed, and someone else took over since you have an academy anyway. But it's just an assumption on my part and assume makes an ass out of "u and me".
Tried a Duora 10 today in doubles for a few points and it is much more flexible than my BS12 and TK-Onigiri (quite whippy). Good weight to it, not unwieldy. Easy power output. A safe slightly head heavy/balanced racket.
@paulstewart Duora 10 not selling well? in UK? You could be more specific. My local raket shop guy just got himself a brand new Lexus from his racket business with 80% handling Yonex customers. Duora 10 sells like hot cakes here. TK9000 over VTZF2? in BC? You got to be kidding me, no one uses TK9000 here in my whole town of 200,000 and there are like tons of people usingVTZF2 (normal, LD, LCW), one of the local racket shop here tried to push Victor so hard because he's offered more commission but epic fail for him as people will just buy the brand they know for more than 40 years, Yonex. Victor is unheard of until the past 2-3 years and that's because they try really hard to beat Yonex by offering more commission or profit margin to retailers. Who would be so gullible to trust what have been said with all these negative propaganda and manipulated racket review? How you're perceiving Yonex might be in UK or BC, but in the world you're way off as people are still regarding Yonex as the best. If Victor makes better rackets than Yonex we'll see their name on the top for sure as it's all up to the customers like me and a lot of badminton players I know to decide which are the best for us. And just like Tsai Chia Hsin mentioned when he's under Victor (he just didn't like their rackets and so longing to use Yonex that he bought his own with his own money), even if Victor paid me to use their rackets for free, I'll still be wanting to want use a Yonex and buy myself. For me it's just worth my every yen and I do know a lot of people who feel the same.
from 12:40, he's even from Taiwan where Victor's from but didn't beat around the bush about severely dissapointed of Victor and his preference to Yonex.
There's 1 big problem I have with all of this. It's fine to be biased as long as you state you are working for the company. You should not claim to be in a position of neutrality when there are very strong suspicions that there is bias, unless a direct proof can be given. Your alternative is to not give an opinion. This leads to the problem: Quoting esppy 'To the untrained noob who happens to gloss over the thread and posts, it serves as a stark reminder to think twice to purchase your sponsor's competitor's offering. Effect achieved. (now allow me to recommend you another frame......)' Claiming you are unbiased without meaningful backup doesn't make you unbiased. Elementary statistics show you are extremely likely to be biased.
Thank's for the video. I don't really like that kind of interview as they are currently under Yonex contract, it's normal that they say good thing about yonex (im not questioning about if it's true or not). Seing all these players telling about how good yonex is does a strange feeling on me like if they are fanatic people. I just feel sad that nowaday, players become add sandwich men. Im quite sad when i see Lin dan desperatly trying to show his yonex towel at the camera after winning the all england, he the legend of badminton shoud worth more than that. Im aware that due to his special contract, he must wear li-ning gears and then yonex has only small visibility during tournaments but i think it's too much. i appreciate few years ago when there was less marketing on this sport...
I don't find any problem with promoting their sponsor brand , I mean all other sports are doing this and it's all these sponsors that are looking after them as pro atheletes, please remember that as they're supporting the brand that supports them. On the other hand, manipulating review/rating (overexaggerating of one brand and down playing another) or negative propaganda of another brand is another issue.
I think what's being said in the video is exactly what you point down here ==> overexaggerating of one brand and down playing the rest "i've never played with such a good racket, so so much better than my previous one etc ... " Do you really think that there is so much difference between two same spec (saying HH and very stiff) from yonex and victor (or APACS, babolat whatever) ?? All this is sadly only marketing and we should not fall that much in it. As said before, this thread is about the DUORA 10, so i'll leave my last comment about this controversy. I would be happy to discuss further about it with PM.
As far as I'm concerned, this is very very much still on Duora10. It's about it's current place and existence and essentially, someone who receives benefits in one way or another from a competitor calling it a phony, which it is to a degree while conveniently giving nothing away on what happens on their own side. It's just not credible and it also as a by-effect, creates a feel to deviate from your sponsor's competitor and hopefully, in a scattershot approach, your sponsor can benefit. I'm not a certain blind forumer who goes around asking if the ArcSaber FB will allow me to smash like Ahsan a couple years back, much to anyone's chagrin. I do, as well, show it out in the professionals' gear thread that nope, LCW's gear aren't standard issue. It's the agenda behind that certain writing that we're exploring here. A pothole fixed still leaves it's mark on the road. A "marmite" racquet review with nothing much at all negative only requiring more effort and attention for a certain area. "That's fair and dainty", said nobody ever. Notice very much I do not target anyone supporting such said sponsor. It's their choice, they pay out of their pocket to this said manufacturer, all is fine. Not to me when you have an ongoing arrangement. As the rest put it plainly, I will say it figuratively, holding the knife with blood dripping off it and a corpse on the floor when the police arrives, valiantly shouting your innocence will fail to convince anyone, ever. Along with such said claims that you Sir @paulstewart64 , are saying, that sales are falling short of Yonex's expectations, a very very rudimentary question would be: where did you get the sales forecast and purchase order amount? Especially when at a time period when you are not under Yonex's umbrella.
There's no need to go further. He's leaving and not defended against any of the points we have said. Btw, it's probably better not to attack Paul on Duora isn't selling that well part. Perhaps in UK where team victor fanboys resides, this is likely to be true. I smell some sort of victor control in the UK. Yonex simply doesn't care about the UK, since hardly anyone plays badminton=>less market=>less money (The Adcocks are the only world class players). In virtually all badminton countries though...
I started reading paul's reviews about yonex rackets and i don't understand why you started this fight out. He gaves 4.5 stars rating to most of them which is a very good result, what's the problem??????? xiaoqiao ==> please don't go down with that kind of remark (do i have to remind who where badminton comes from?). You don't agree with him and like Yonex a lot that's ok but looking down of an entire people ...
