Re: Apology to Zhao and all Chinese ! Terrence, I have read your previous posting. Your wording " He is a disappointment because he is just like the rest of the chinese - money sucker" is actually irritating, I am really angry with you, cause you are insulting Zhao and millions of Chinese, as long as I am also a fan of Zhao and being a Chinese. Anyway, you have said sorry to Zhao's supporters in this forum. However, I don't think it is enough. If you have admitted your fault by spoiling Zhao's reputation, you should also say your sincere apology to Zhao Jian Hua, and all our Chinese OPENLY IN THIS FORUM too. You have painted all our Chinese as money suckers, and defamated the Great name Zhao, I believe all our Chinese will not let you off if you don't express your deepest apology here ! Frankly speaking, I find some of your analysis contradictory. 1. You say you will hate and despise all coaches and players from any countries who claims to raise badminton standard in Singapore but fail to do so, then will you hate and despise your local Singapore coach, who also fail to bring up any famous players ( has been a fact for a long time ), as long as you say you are LOYAL to your country. If your answer is NO, the highly reason is - your racial discrimination against comers from outside. 2. Your assumption of "good coach MUST guarantee to give good players" has problem. Just like other reader in this form - Cheung, even good teachers cannot guarantee all their students are good. When a teacher, let say teaches badly, a positive student will seek help by other ways like reading more reference book and doing more exercise, so according to my past experience, my form teacher taught badly, but I still get good results in my final exam as I haven't abandoned myself. Certainly I shall blame this teacher a bit but can I put all the responsibility and blame on my teacher here ? One's responsibility to train up oneself is also important, I mean the quality and self discipline of the badminton players is also an important factor to be considered. This may be unfair to put all the blame to only one factor - the coach. Therefore, may be offending, I feel your assumption is naive. Besides, haven't you read the news from the bbc.com that recently, Zhao had led the Singapore team to China to have a something like friendly matches between 5 countries, though Singapore team lost all the game, the Chinese coach still highly admired the leaps and bound progress of Singapore players, under the coaching of Zhao. Besides, a former Indonesia player (I don't remember his name) is playing for the Singapore team, is also under the coaching of Zhao, this Indonesian also played well and ranked relatively good in the World Championship. You can check it in the bbc.com web if you understand Chinese Language. Can you say Zhao hasn't any contribution here ? In addition, in india, there is insufficient fund and facilities to train up sportsmen, not to say importing overseas badminton coach. Under such harsh envirnoment, without suffice funding, without eminent coach, without government support, there is still an Indian Champion of All England Open last year, I can't remember his name. Compared with India, Singapore is indeed a better developed economy, but why India can do so but not in Singapore ? It is simply a question of the resolution of the player himself or herself. Therefore, please don't blame the others without self-appraised beforehand. 3. Other than the players himself or herself, government encouragement and support is another factor. Does the Singaporean Gov't encourages the development of Badminton whole-heartedly ? Does your gov't put lots of support and subsidies on this sport ? I don't think so. On the other hand, other countries like Indonesia and Malaysia, Gov't does support badminton sport as badminton is their strong event for a long long time. That's why they succeed. See, there are indeed unlisted factors should be considered. Finally, you leave an open question on why Zhao and the SBA terminate the contract, who knows ther reason(s) ? I feel you still continue trying to lead some readers to think it is the fault of Zhao - fail to teach good and fail to bring up good players. Please don't play such silly trick again, otherwise, or you will tend to insult the intelligence of Chinese once again. Besides, I think all of us should stop on this controversary as such topic is out of the scope of this forum, after all, we cannot listen to just one-side story or even make-up story, too much discussion on the lack of proof and just imagination comes meanless. I think all of us should stop here. Zhao's Supporter
Cheung, I think you just made Terence's point. When Zhao took up the SBA's offer, he was neither starving not struggling to make ends meet. I'm not advocating that he should only do so in either of these situations or that it wrong for him to coach simply because the pay is good. But depending on how somebody else chooses to view you - and I'm sure we all agree that different people view things differently - it may or may not make you look like a money sucker. Bbn, for instance, has advocated that "labor of love" business which for someone like me who was born and bred in Nanyang has no grasp of - unfortunately. It may be a generation gap though. Bbn, you really remind me of my parents. Zhao's supporter, it is true that Singapore has a high standard of living but that does not necessarily convert itself into a higher standard of sport. On the contrary, I am tempted to think that it is precisely because Singaporeans are so pampered that we are often unwilling to rock the boat. It may be true that we have little resolution - but resolution is often derived from desperation. Some people are willing to work harder than others simply because they have no other way out of poverty. It boils down to a matter of survival really and Singaporeans are not desperate. I am less inclined to think that some people are born with more mental toughness than others and that we are by nature, weaklings.
You're right Adel I am like your parents. Didn't one famous American once said about 30 years ago "Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" (provided we are talking about our own countries.) Didn't a lot of people give back to society once they have achieved a certain amount of success (Provided of course they have reached that level). I personally think there is nothing wrong with accumulating wealth if it is important to that person. Most people in badminton circles in nanyang are fully aware that it is not practical for a person to give part time coaching because the end results will not be very convincing.
Adel wrote: > > > Zhao's supporter, it is true that Singapore has a high > standard of living but that does not necessarily convert > itself into a higher standard of sport. On the contrary, I am > tempted to think that it is precisely because Singaporeans > are so pampered that we are often unwilling to rock the boat. > It may be true that we have little resolution - but > resolution is often derived from desperation. This is true to a point. But if you look at the country that is most successful at sports, if you consider the Olympics, and most other major sporting events, it's the US. Most successful per capita for countries with a population over a million, it's Australia. Now neither of these countries are exactly desperate, or impoverished, the reason that they/we are successful is because we have the money to pour into facilities and training (though not unfortunately into badminton *sob*). Parents now that their kids can go into sport full time, and even if they don't make it, they'll still probably get a job (maybe not a good a job), or get supported by the government, so success in sport is not critical even if you chose the path. I think the main thing is that it's cultural, here in Oz, when kids are young we really encourage / almost force them to get out and play with other kids, outside. In Asia if the kids stay indoors all the time and study, if my kids (if I eventually have any) did that I'd be worried about them.
Funny coincidence, Terence. A friend just sent me a copy of that video, and I have to agree, Zhao's (and Frost's) play is tremendous. In one rally, Zhao won by playing only drops. Can you imagine anyone today who would be able to do that to a top player? Or who would have the nerve to try?
to Zhao's supporter 1)In between 1950 to 1960.Singapore was part of malaya(During that time singapore and malaya was still under the british rule)Singapore born Wong peng soon won the ALL-England title.He together with another Singapore born doubles player ong poh lim help malaya to win the thomas cup (i dun know whether more is than one time) U may think this is so long.But im telling u singapore do enjoy some of the title fame way before china enter the badminton circuit in the 70s. Do u know that in the mid 80's,singapore hve qualified in the thomas cup final. In 1983,singapore wong shoon keat won the sea games gold medal by beating former indonesia great icuk sugariato.They won w/o help of forign coaches.It was then in 1990,Sba start to bank on china coaches here comethe arrival of Zeng qing jin to coach the national team.Then come sun bin,shang fu mei,zhang qing song(ging wu's brother).Under this coaches,All player train by them pack their bag in the first few rounds of many tornament.Except for zarinah, she pack her bag after reaching quater finals of all-england one year. Zhao supporter,i know ur country is very supreme,i know but that dosent means,ur country badminton have something speacial that singapore dun have.And therfore it is worth for these top player or badminton legend to be paid highly to coach singapore.Its the hard work and dedication and commitment that u r going to put in in order to achieve result not someone talented to teach his talent to the players.Do u understand Why singapore could produce champion is because singapore have very small pool of talents and young singaporean have to take care of their studies and also train badminton at the same time.It unlike china and indonesia and many other countries and therefoe a sports school is neccesaily. This r enviromental factor that obstruct singapore to do well in sports. i never want to offend people of races and i never want.it just so happen that these disappointing legends come from china .u r a bit sensitve and also i have already make an apology for my harsh words to all china/zhao supporter. u said this is not enough.(what is the meaning of this) u have apologise for calling names like terrorist. i am also very angry u know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
terence, i think you are getting off track again. 1. USA was once even stronger in badminton than singapore** but i don't see american bitching about their national players or coaches. Ardy wiranata was in the US for about 2 years, i didn't see any performance change just because ardy was there to coach. **The year 1949 brought the United States its first world champions as David Freeman of Pasadena, California, won men’s singles at the prestigious All-England Championships (considered the unofficial world championships until 1977 when World Championships were instituted). Americans Clinton and Patsy Stevens won the All-England mixed doubles title the same year. The United States’ international success continued. Between 1949 and 1967, the United States won 23 world individual championships (one men’s singles, 12 women’s singles, one men’s doubles, eight women’s doubles, and one mixed doubles) and three women’s world team championships. The U.S. men’s team was also world runner-up during this period. Sports Illustrated acknowledged the United States’ badminton success by featuring top male player Joe Alston on the cover of its March 7, 1955 issue. 2. Terence, not all zhao supporters are from china so don't say zhao supporters have superiority complex 3. Population: denmark 4.4 million; singapore 5.4 million; India 1100 million; Indonesia 229 million. denmark has similar population as singapore, denmark is badminton powerhouse, singapore is not. India has about 5 times the number of people than indonesia but indonesia is badminton powerhouse. Therefore, you are dead wrong to link population to pool of talent. I think Pecheur's post is more accurate, it really comes down to what that country want from their people and how they support them.
Verdict of Justice Bao Niao Nao Defendant Zhao not guilty : 1) He had full time job in adopted country. 2) He knew and said that country,s badminton beyond help. 3) The association wants quick miracles, somehow gets Zhao to split his time between his job and being coach. 4) Unfortunately he agrees and is compensated with peanuts. Maybe he felt obligated in some way. 5) Association runs low on funds and can get a full time coach to do what Zhao does part-time at same pay. End result his reputation is smeared and he is thrown in the bracket of his previous full time predecessors who probably knew there was little hope of success.
TO COOLER Zhao supporter said these: Frankly speaking, I find some of your analysis contradictory. ( You say you will hate and despise all coaches and players from any countries who claims to raise badminton standard in Singapore but fail to do so, then will you hate and despise your local Singapore coach, who also fail to bring up any famous players (IT HAS BEEN A FACT FOR A LONG TIME ), as long as you say you are LOYAL to your country. If your answer is NO, the highly reason is - your racial discrimination against comers from outside) i m trying to say singapore do produce great shutterlers if u dun look at wong peng soon in the 60s but at least look at wong shoon keat at the mid 80s.They r also many of them but i forgot their name.NOTE: they were not coach by foreign badminton legends.
Terence, How can you expect others to respect you, if you don't respect the others at the very beginning ? Should I thank you while you are calling our Chinese - Money Sucker ! Don't forget you are also a Chinese as you mentioned, if you say "the rest of Chinese - money sucker", you are also insulting yourself ! Just like our Chinese saying " A person being insulted by others, the reason is that person insults himself first ! " Just put yourself in my shoes, if I say such statement to your Singaporeans, how do you feel ? "the rest of Chinese" is pointing to and painting millions of innocent Chinese, "terrorist" is pointing to only one faulty person - YOU ! In terms of humilitation, who is more offending ? After all, it is the person YOU who light up the fire first, if you say you are very angry with me, I can response here : I AM EVEN MUCH MORE ANGRY WITH YOU ! You say I am sensitive, would it come more true to say your wording "the rest of Chinese - money sucker" is sensitive to raise this controversy ? I haven't mentioned China's badminton standard is superior to Singapore's. My aim is to quote other factors like gov't support and sportsmen's hardship, other than just the coach, contributing to a successful sportsman. You have admitted defamating Zhao's reputation and do say sorry to his supporters, right ! However, is it necessary for you to say a least a sorry to the victim - Zhao Jian Hua in this forum ? Even bring a defamation case to the court, the admitted guilty one does have to say sorry to the victim openly, instead of only saying sorry to the victim's friends or relatives. As you do admit you have spoil Zhao's name, ask yourself, do you need to say a sorry to Zhao ? But you haven't
to all people, i know im like a stupid fool who only know how to complain But im stating the fact.All this r happening in the local badminton scene. fo the past decade.i just wan to play my part to protect the interest of singapore is that wrong? why im saying this is because im starting to lose the sense of belonging here in singapore. i admire thoes chinese supporter.Zhao have done well china proud.he is someone who the chinese r proud for.So when i spoke of ill,they hit back by all means. but they were a bit rude and unreasonable.Why? i already make apologys.They demad more.Moreover they never apologise to me.But nevermind,i already got use of this people as there r already alot of them in singapore. If taufik hidayat won the all-england title or thomas cup for singapore.i tell all of u i will never feel the joy that the chinese feel for zhao. Here in singapore,Sba dun even give local coaches(like anthony chan,watson tay and other dedicated coaches) a chance to prove themself .And when i try to speak up for them,i only c adel.Where is kwun and the other singaporean.dead? If we rely on foreign coaches.Where is the development of local coaches? dun tell me they have something special to impart or come to teach their talents to us. .......................................................................................................................
I almost have nothing more to contribute except for the final points. It would be unreasonable for S'pore to produce another great badminton player just because they did so in the past. Gopichand was the first Indian winner of the All England after a 20 year break. That guy has had some huge surgery on his knee. That he can come back to play top class badminton shows his character and desire. We need to examine all aspects of S'pore's system.....support scheme, choice of players, organisation, funding, coaches, players psychology. Hmm, judging by people's reactions there are many more stirred up people out there. Makes me look quite mild!!
soory jian hua fo the harsh remarks i made but i really cant forgive for ur remarks and ur sudden change of mind to coach singapore i thought u r someone who r at least different form the rest of ur kind .im disappointed with u.
Sigh...no hope "i thought u r someone who r at least different form the rest of ur kind" That would be regarded as typical stereotyping and prejudice. Sorry to put in so clearly. In the end, I think we will go in circles. You will always blame SBA's lack of success on Zhao. You also believe in S'pore's coaches. That's great, but it seems you think they should produce results without depending on outside views and development. Such an insular view would probably stifle dissemination and acceptance of new ideas/training methods. I am sorry you are so bitter and cannot help you.
"but i really cant forgive for ur remarks and ur sudden change of mind to coach singapore i thought u r someone who r at least different form the rest of ur kind" Geez terence, after all this clarification and rebuttal from other posters, your latest remark is even worst than your first one you've made about chinese being money suckers. "soory jian hua fo the harsh remarks i made .im disappointed with u." Also, what kind of BS apology is that?
Chinese coaches do add value. Fang Kai Xiang,Yang Yang , Han Jian raised the level of Malaysian badminton and improved on the work of local coaches. Their names are still much respected and remembered by local badminton players. Nowadays it is the turn of Indonesian coaches.
