Fu Haifeng can be counted among the greatest men's doubles player, but since it's doubles, we also have to give credit to his partners, Cai Yun and ,now, Zhang Nan. He can't do it alone. Undoubtedly, Zhang Nan is also among the greatest in XD, with Zhao Yunlei, of course.
The thing is fu haifeng has been paired with two of the best players IMO (zhang nan and cai yun). China has this plethora of great players to pair with and therefore it's easier to play. I rate people like LYD and setiawan above him because they have paired many not as good players and reached such a high level for a long time. Although now I think about it, all the best players IMO seems to be the net guy. Maybe not giving enough credit to the back guy.
It's a bit of a convoluted argument to say one player is worse than another who has won significantly less because he had a stronger partner when he achieved great things with different partners. Also, many rate LYD higher than CY - yet somehow he's strong enough to pull Fu with him? And ZN as well? Additionally, Korea has a much stronger MD talent pool than China (or used to have), so the real advantage lies with LYD compared to FHF. Keep in mind that he had Jung, Ko and Yoo as partners, all world class players in their own way and able to capture the WR1 position. The lack of success in big tournaments is partly on LYD's shoulders for certain (remember, Ko got a WC Gold, LYD didnt). Of course I'm not saying FHF has/had weak partners, but downplaying his achievements to having strong partners is fairly rude. Doubles is a team effort, and thus it becomes near impossible to distinguish between partners' achievements and strength (unless it's a very clear difference, like at the beginning of the Ahsan/Setiawan pairing). But when one MD player achieves great results with varying partners, it proves that player's strength as he obviously doesnt rely on a stronger partner to just pull him through. This applies to FHF, LYD, HS all the same. All 3 had success with multiple partners, and FHF even made significant changes to his play style, choosing to play at the net far more frequently and developing his net play in order to do that. While it had been a trend for years (first mentioned in the 2009 AE, I believe), he really seemed to make a leap forward at (and after) the 2012 Olympics. Sadly, no such thing can be said about LYD, whose back court play has been one-dimensional and lacking in danger for quite some time now.
Too much political correctness angers me. I'm not trying to be rude to anyone; I'm trying to be objective. Fu haifeng isn't here, who am I offending, and thinking he's not the best is considered rude? My opinion simply was: Fu had better partners than some of the others, and I don't think he is the best ever overall. CY is widely known as one of the greatest net players due to his speed, (Okay LYD might be better than him but there's no argument CY would be very close to LYD's level). Same goes for Zhang nan, he would be in the world's top 3 for both MD and XD in his age. Both ZN and CY are clearly better than koo jung and to a lesser extent yoo. Setiawan had kidos and ahsan, and both of them are also clearly weaker (Ahsan to a lesser degree) than ZN and CY as well. Fu's become much better at the net, but when he pairs with Zhang nan it's very clear who's making 80% of the mistakes in the drive game.
To state it without political correctness: I think your argument is crap. Yeah, he had good partners, but so did LYD and a lot of others. JJS especially was a fairly complete player, and a strong back court player in times where you had less emphasis on the service game, and the SF loss at the Olympics can be attributed in big parts to LYD playing underwhelmingly (especially that dropped shuttle at the end....no words). So, once again without political correctness - your argument reeks of weak excuse of why other, worse players didnt achieve the same Fu did.
It's a new version of the N9 - the N9-ii. Not much known about it except that it exists...same with the N7-ii (which ZN uses)
Hey you're distorting my point, my opinion only said he's not the very best. It's different than 'other, worse players didnt achieve the same Fu did.' JJS might be a fairly complete player, but he isn't in most pros eyes one of the very best. Sure, he can do everything do a good degree, but he doesn't have anything that makes him especially lethal. Cai Yun and Zhang Nan are widely regarded among the pros as the very best.
Is ZN really, in MD? I personally dont think hes the overall stronger player than Fu. He's better and more creative defensively, and sometimes has insane matches where he's unplayable at the net, but Fu is faster still and overall more stable. They're actually comparable in the service situation, imop, and have that trade-off where ZN is stronger on defense and Fu much better from the back....and that higher reliability of Fu does give him the edge. But that's just my opinion. I've never seen or heard a pro comment on either CY or ZN (just on FHF's smash and how it was the hardest to defend, back in 2011 I think).
Fu is a very hard person to comment on: Early days: He did have an insanely powerful smash and quick movement back in the early days. However unlike others (that I think that were overall better than him), he also had a lot of weaknesses-his net game, defense game and unforced errors. Setiawan or LYD was known for not being a smasher, but they still have a respectable smash each time they were in the back court. Later days: He had a less powerful smash, but still pretty good. He is a little slower. His weaknesses are now not as obvious, has worked on the net, drive game and doesn't make suicidal errors. 2012-2016 MD Fu is no match for Zhang. The game currently consists of 80+% drives and Fu is the one making most of the errors in that situation. Serve: Zhang>Fu (only by a bit though-Zhang has a spin in his serve, although Fu's is stable and pretty good) Net: Zhang>Fu Drives: Zhang>>Fu (this is by far the most important factor) Reading: Zhang>Fu Defense: Zhang>Fu Attack Fu>Zhang Speed Fu=Zhang Stamina Fu=Zhang Quite clear to me who's the better player. Steen Pedersen used to rank LYD and Zhang as the best, then changed his opinion to ZN being the best MD and XD player. Morten frost had similar comments on ZN, and Zhao Jianhua thought ZN was the best player overall.
Sorry to create such heated discussion . I mainly asked what people thought of putting Fu Haifeng as being the "greatest of all time" because it's honestly a very difficult question to answer as we've all found out. If we just looked at the statistics on paper, Fu Haifeng is by far the most successful MD player to date with his major titles. His skill sets are heavily stacked towards the backcourt which perhaps people might not see as a "complete" player. One might say that without a superb front court player, there would rarely be any lifts for Fu Haifeng to smash and therefore neutralize his best weapon. On the other hand if the opponents know someone LYD is in the back of the court and continuously lift to him knowing it's going to be a weak smash, that's a problem as well. I would even this discussion out by saying that Fu Haifeng is the greatest BACK COURT player of all time, but also a solid all around player who has made SIGNIFICANT improvements to his net and mid court game as he got older once he realized he wouldn't have the physicality to keep bombing the same smashes in his 30's compared his 20's.
The idea to compare Fu Haifeng the back court player with Zhang, LYD, Setiawan the front court players is just nonsense and bullshit. In order to estimate the greatness of badminton players, people have to establish many tournaments. No need any nonstop arguments. Look at Fu's Titles and have your own greatest player. Olympic Games 1 Doubles 2016 Rio de Janeiro, Brazil 1 Doubles 2012 London, United Kingdom 2 Doubles 2008 Beijing, China Asian Games 1 Team 2010 Guangzhou, China 1 Team 2006 Doha, Qatar 2 Team 2014 Incheon, South Korea World Championships 1 Doubles 2011 London, United Kingdom 1 Doubles 2010 Paris, France 1 Doubles 2009 Hyderabad, India 1 Doubles 2006 Madrid, Spain 3 Doubles 2013 Guangzhou, China 3 Doubles 2003 Birmingham, United Kingdom Sudirman Cup 1 Team 2015 Dongguan, China 1 Team 2013 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia 1 Team 2011 Qingdao, China 1 Team 2009 Guangzhou, China 1 Team 2007 Glasgow, Scotland 1 Team 2005 Beijing, China Thomas Cup 1 Team 2012 Wuhan, China 1 Team 2010 Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia 1 Team 2008 Jakarta, Indonesia 1 Team 2006 Sendai and Tokyo, Japan 1 Team 2004 Jakarta, Indonesia World Cup 1 Doubles 2005 Yiyang, China PRC National Games 2 Doubles 2009 Shandong, China 2 Doubles 2005 Jiangsu, China 2 Team 2005 Jiangsu, China 3 Team 2009 Shandong, China International Tournaments 1 Doubles 2012 Hong Kong Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2012 Korea Open Super Series Premier 1 Doubles 2011 Hong Kong Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2011 Yonex Japan Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2011 Djarum Indonesia Open Super Series Premier 1 Doubles 2011 Li-Ning Singapore Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2011 Badminton Asia Championships 1 Doubles 2010 Yonex Japan Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2010 Li-Ning China Masters Super Series 1 Doubles 2009 Yonex All England Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2008 Thailand Open Grand Prix Gold 1 Doubles 2008 Yonex Korea Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2007 French Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2007 China Masters Super Series 1 Doubles 2007 Djarum Indonesia Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2007 Aviva Singapore Open Super Series 1 Doubles 2006 Copenhagen Masters 1 Doubles 2006 Macau Open 1 Doubles 2006 Chinese Taipei Open 1 Doubles 2005 Yonex-Sunrise Hong Kong Open 1 Doubles 2005 Yonex All England Open 1 Doubles 2005 Yonex German Open 1 Doubles 2004 Swiss Open 2 Doubles 2011 Li-Ning China Masters Super Series 2 Doubles 2010 Victor Korea Open Super Series 2 Doubles 2009 Li-Ning China Masters Super Series 2 Doubles 2009 Djarum Indonesia Super Series 2 Doubles 2008 Denmark Open Super Series 2 Doubles 2007 Yonex All England Open Super Series 2 Doubles 2006 China Open 2 Doubles 2006 China Masters 2 Doubles 2005 Proton Malaysia Open 2 Doubles 2004 Djarum Indonesia Open 2 Doubles 2004 Yonex Japan Open 2 Doubles 2003 Yonex German Open 2 Doubles 2003 Proton Eon Malaysia Open 3 Doubles 2011 Yonex All England Open Super Series 3 Doubles 2011 Victor-BWF Super Series Finals 3 Doubles 2009 Wilson Swiss Open Super Series 3 Doubles 2008 Li-Ning China Masters Super Series 3 Doubles 2008 Proton Malaysia Open Super Series 3 Doubles 2007 Yonex-Sunrise Hong Kong Open Super Series 3 Doubles 2007 Denmark Open Super Series 3 Doubles 2007 Macau Open Grand Prix Gold 3 Doubles 2006 Yonex Japan Open 3 Doubles 2006 Yonex-Sunrise Hong Kong Open 3 Doubles 2006 Proton Malaysia Open 3 Doubles 2005 Yonex Japan Open 3 Doubles 2004 Yonex All England Open 3 Doubles 2003 China Open 3 Doubles 2003 Siam Cement Thailand Open 3 Doubles 2002 China Open
I think that keeping calm in very close situations is what seperates Fu from other players. He had some weak moments in the last year or so (all England final for example). He can fullfill his potential. Where others, like LYD still seem to be nervous in the big occasions.
Fu doesn't smash as hard as before, but he improves his net shoots! He still gets nevous in big occasions! but at the age of 32, he won the olympic gold in men's double! I would say he's definately one of the greatest of all times!
Being new to this game, smashes really impress me and its undoubtedly what has made FHF one of my favourite players I watch and learn from. His demeanour however is what impresses me the most, and what I think contributes mostly to him being labelled as one of the greatest MD player. For this reason I think he adds something to any pairing that cannot be measured using facts and figures, and its also why he is considered China's Team Captain.
A perfect ending for Fu Haifeng at the Rio Olympics. Will he retire now or soon ? I expect so, most likely soon after mentoring the younger players a bit.
happiest moment of the whole Olympics.. http://www.aiyuke.com/news/2016/08/nbe16e545bbf.html?1472191927.html
Your claim my idea is nonsense sounds like nonsense to me too. It's like saying Bill Gates is the smartest person alive because he is the richest. Yes, there is a huge correlation and Bill Gates is insanely smart, but he probably isn't the smartest guy alive. Same goes for Fu- if he was paired with Mathias Boe instead, I would expect a pairing like Mogensen (before his brain surgery) and Cai to wreck them. In case you haven't figured out, comparing front player and back player isn't apple vs oranges. There are lots of similarities. Since 2011 or so, the better pair is mostly determined by who is better at the first three shots, drives and how well teams work in their NON favored formation. Pre-2010 Although he had the biggest smash in the attack and defense era, I don't think he's the best because he had too many weaknesses (front court, defense). Post-2010 In the drive era, I don't think he's the best because he makes too many mistakes in the drive game compared to his partner. Here's a good example, although this was a bad day, other matches I watched have been similar.
So explain how all those supposedly 'better players' didnt win those titles he won. And if you start with "he had better partners, Jung was ****", I'm gonna flip. Zhang seems to be overrated by a fair many, he's actually not super fast and Fu's ability to exert pressure on any high shot you play to him far outweighs his. While I'm not saying Fu is a much better player than Zhang, I'd be surprised if ZN was as successful with a new partner. And if Ahsan ever got to an Olympic final. Or LYD.
