Yonex French Open 2021(26th to 31st October)

[CLELY]

Kanta Tsuneyama creates big breakthrough in his badminton career to outlast more fancied former champion Chou TC, once again new MS champion is emerged in FRA Open after a string of the unseeded players won title in previous editions. Obviously the Japanese has better fitness level than his final rival, good court coverage, solid defense and strong endurance. As we know, several elite players either pulled out or retired in this tournament due to accumulated fatigue and Tsuneyama capitalises this situation well to reach top notch result here. Chou gave up in second game to conserve his energy but unfortunately it's still not enough to halt more composed Tsuneyama for his maiden crown in top tier tournament.

Back to back title for Akane Yamaguchi and Watanabe/Higashino as well in Europe tour. Actually Sayaka Takahashi could balance her younger compatriot quality shots in opening game but inconsistency plus uncharacteristic mistakes denied 29 years old Japanese from victory including last quick three points that awarded Yamaguchi first set winning then a lopsided match in second game displaying former champion domination. WataHiga are unstoppable, take command throughout the match, tough for the Danes to break their rhythm.

Big surprise when world #27 clinched MD title, 2014 World Champions Ko SH/Shin BC still show their heyday quality to beat the more favoured Gideon/Sukamuljo in two middle paced games, nostalgic edition, they're old pair but still good. A big disappointment for Minions who unable to end their title drought since January 2020, they aren't back on finest form yet particularly fast furious fast attacking shots with creative interception. Lee/Shin defend WD title in convincing way as Kim/Kong only put little trouble surprisingly instead on usual fierce fighting.

 

[r1cky_b3cks]

sorry, guys.

does anyone know why Yuta/Arisa ranking is now world ranking 1
https://bwfworldtour.bwfbadminton.c...=61&ryear=2021&week=43&page_size=25&page_no=1

But in the introduction, they are no 3??

that is the ranking to the World Tour Final this year, not the world ranking.

 

[sonnymak]

Maybe but i'm really not sure. Why use the past Era to compared with current though, why not use now as the benchmark? I definitely think peak ShettyRR will denotate the defence of best pairs. They have done that against top EndoYuta.

You said all that has great defence, but AhsanHendra isnt particularly great in defence and they are still winning H2H against say Boe/Mo.

Also KooTan isnt great example, they are just lazy. maybe exist just 1-2 year, Hard to say you will have a chance to play them at that time even.

Of the top mens doubles pair of 2007 to 2012, I would say Koo- Tan was the weakest in terms of physical condition stamina and mental toughness. And yet any top pair that played them could be wary of their form. They were the Gideon-Kevin of the day albeit less speed. If Fu-Cai , LYD-Jung/ Yoo and Ko-Shin were not around during 2007-2012, Koo-Tan would only have Boe-Morgen and Hendra - Kido/ Ahsan to fight for glory. Koo-Tan would be sharing titles with these two pairs.

We have exactly the said scenario during Gideon-Kevin rise from 2017-2019 where they didnt have many pairs that were equal to their strength and the older pairs that were still around were on their semi retired phase. I would still say Gideon-Kevin were better than Koo-Tan only by a whisker.

 

[wade]

Of the top mens doubles pair of 2007 to 2012, I would say Koo- Tan was the weakest in terms of physical condition stamina and mental toughness. And yet any top pair that played them could be wary of their form. They were the Gideon-Kevin of the day albeit less speed. If Fu-Cai , LYD-Jung/ Yoo and Ko-Shin were not around during 2007-2012, Koo-Tan would only have Boe-Morgen and Hendra - Kido/ Ahsan to fight for glory. Koo-Tan would be sharing titles with these two pairs.

We have exactly the said scenario during Gideon-Kevin rise from 2017-2019 where they didnt have many pairs that were equal to their strength and the older pairs that were still around were on their semi retired phase. I would still say Gideon-Kevin were better than Koo-Tan only by a whisker.

Koo/tan was pretty underrated, I remember how kido/hendra kept losing against them until they finally get their revenge at the beijing olympics

 

[Yoji]

Ultimately, better or not, depend on the number of titles they won, prize money they earned and H2H record with their peers. Saying that they are just slightly better, is just like saying Momota/Axelsen wont be winning many titles had LD and LCW still exists.

Of course KooTan had 8SS&9RU in SS + AG is one of the best pairs ever. Its definitely the best Malaysia pair in this century. Its quite sad that their last title was like when they were 23 years old so basically thats the time when they were finished (2010). Winning their 1st 7Finals, Losing their last 7 Finals.

Compared with HendraKido 9SS&5RU, HendraAhsan 12SS+12RU not to mention the WCs + 2 AGs . One can say its also longevity to say who is better or not. Hendra is smart enough to find younger partner.

 

[hybisme]

In that case, I would highly recommend you to watch some of the older matches from 2014-2016. Especially matches between Lee/Yoo and Fu Haifeng/Zhang Nan, Ahsan Setiawan and also matches against Ko/Shin and Kim Gi Jung/Kim Sa Rang.

These usually were matches of the highest quality and I still enjoy watching these today, especially the final of the 2014 World Championships between Lee/Yoo and Ko/Shin.

Regarding independent players:
The National Associations have a huge impact on the players training, schedules and also their partnerships and take quite a big cut of their earnings from tournaments.
You would have to check this since I can't remember, but I believe Goh and Chan decided to leave on their own (can't remember the circumstances...)

Happen to watch a match between Kim Gi Jung/Kim Sa Rang and Chai Biao/Hong Wei. Kim Sa Rang is just so crazy talented!! Reactions, skill and he even jump super high.

This cross court defense is super crazy!!

I've a thing for independent players ... I find their passion and determination very admirable. (Imagine funding a "career" which you might not get any "profit", unless you get far enough (QF,SF or Champion))
From what I understand about GLY and CPS, they're "dropped" by BAM, somehow BAM have no plans for them after their OG Sliver medal. My interpretation is BAM won't send them for competitions or put resources into them. So it's no point staying with them.

I wonder if it's the same for the Korean players.

 

[MezzL]

Kgj was originally a front court player. So hes much more skilled with his racket and has the creative play making skills. Lyd has a YouTube channel, wonder play. They do reviews of old matches and they give away alot of cool Intel. They all have English sub (except for new ones which need time to be translated)

Yys, kgj, a lot of korean team have been on there.

I highly suggest everyone to watch the reviews. Maybe 5 of them online. They talk about how Indonesian players like to end the rally in 3 shots, how Japanese are very basic but yuta is an outlier etc.

One thing that stuck with me. Yys: "when we play Indonesian players, even when we win the match, it feels like we've lost"


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Just watched some of the videos there, yoo is very insightful with his analysis, such a smart player

 

[Mark A]

Had the same thought when I saw that thunderous smash from SBC against Gideon earlier, LYD would not have won the rally if he were in SBC's place

SBC isn't the hardest hitter, either, but he hits harder than LYD and - crucially - places them better than probably any other KOR player.

They are "thunderous" because they hit the floor, and they hit the floor because he aims them right

 

[terrynguyen121988]

I made this myself

Do you think that French Open and Denmark Open are two tournaments that "pro" players should have after All England ?

 

[London_Player]

SBC isn't the hardest hitter, either, but he hits harder than LYD and - crucially - places them better than probably any other KOR player.

They are "thunderous" because they hit the floor, and they hit the floor because he aims them right

Nice 2 C veteran Korean MD winning yesterday. SBC has a better consistent serve than LYD and hits a bit harder. Where were the Chinese in this tournament, I wonder. In XD the Japs pair match against the Thai pair should have been the Final. The weak Sweds were no match for them in the final and a one way traffic ensued.

 

[Mark A]

Nice 2 C veteran Korean MD winning yesterday. SBC has a better consistent serve than LYD and hits a bit harder. Where were the Chinese in this tournament, I wonder. In XD the Japs pair match against the Thai pair should have been the Final. The weak Sweds were no match for them in the final and a one way traffic ensued.

SBC's serve is excellent.
Which offsets Ko's, which is awful - he's one of the mentally-weakest servers I have ever seen. Looks down instead of at the net, and rushes the whole action.

His serve is just something to get the point started, IMO.

 

[James blake]

Nice 2 C veteran Korean MD winning yesterday. SBC has a better consistent serve than LYD and hits a bit harder. Where were the Chinese in this tournament, I wonder. In XD the Japs pair match against the Thai pair should have been the Final. The weak Sweds were no match for them in the final and a one way traffic ensued.

Sometimes I wonder how the draws are set. Sometimes I feel it favours someone of the euro players.

I wonder why China doesnt participate more.their b team could make it to semi/finals easily


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[James blake]

SBC's serve is excellent.
Which offsets Ko's, which is awful - he's one of the mentally-weakest servers I have ever seen. Looks down instead of at the net, and rushes the whole action.

His serve is just something to get the point started, IMO.

Ko is there to intimidate the opponent with his physicality lol


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[Ajesh]

Kgj was originally a front court player. So hes much more skilled with his racket and has the creative play making skills. Lyd has a YouTube channel, wonder play. They do reviews of old matches and they give away alot of cool Intel. They all have English sub (except for new ones which need time to be translated)

Yys, kgj, a lot of korean team have been on there.

I highly suggest everyone to watch the reviews. Maybe 5 of them online. They talk about how Indonesian players like to end the rally in 3 shots, how Japanese are very basic but yuta is an outlier etc.

One thing that stuck with me. Yys: "when we play Indonesian players, even when we win the match, it feels like we've lost"


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In Denmark Open final, Viktor Axelsen may feel like this even he wins against Momota

 

[Woesi]

Sometimes I wonder how the draws are set. Sometimes I feel it favours someone of the euro players.

I wonder why China doesnt participate more.their b team could make it to semi/finals easily


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The Chinese players would have needed to quarantine for 2 weeks because of the vaccine they got.
Somebody mentioned the details earlier in this thread...

 

[Justin L]

i was at the time the rule was drafted.

I see, you might as well have honoured yourself by calling it the "samkool rule", knowing how vocal you are.

Actually, the rule in itself is fine, acceptable, CBA and Li Yongbo are for it, no objections, as it applies equally to all member associations.

It's just that the original motive, what drives it, the (hidden) agenda might not be so innocent. The politics of envy, jealousy, sore loser mentality could be driving it, additionally. Anyway, it's history, all water under the bridge, we've moved on.

Also it probably has to do with the fact that China at one time was too dominant, even their second or third best player could take on the rest of the world, and that was viewed as unhealthy for the development of the sport as happened in the distant past when Denmark and Indonesia were in their time. I recalled Gillian Clark once revealed that Li Yongbo was ever approached by BWF requesting that CBA not send all their top players to every tournament to give others a chance, and he obliged.

Also, remember, as Gillian Clark pointed out the other day, recently when the Japanese WDs were all-conquering , occupying the top six world ranking, and there's nothing we can do about it but to accept and let it run its course. It happens in every sport, there's no easy solution for it.

Enough said. Cheers.

 

[Hassefar60]

It's just that the original motive, what drives it, the (hidden) agenda might not be so innocent. The politics of envy, jealousy, sore loser mentality could be driving it, additionally. Anyway, it's history, all water under the bridge, we've moved on.

I just want to add to samkool's argument about the rule, as you seem to question whether China did anything wrong. So a few points in bullet form:

• China was not the only "offender", but the worst one. Of course China was the only nation who could do it to that extent due to their dominance.
• Chinese players withdrew much more often from matches against other Chinese players than from matches against players from other nations. This is pure statistics. I don't remember the exact numbers but I do remember hearing them from someone who actually went through all tournaments and counted.
• When asked about this "behaviour", Li Yongbo didn't deny it. In fact, he was proud of it, because the fact that they could even do it was a testament to their dominance.
• Notable example: Lin Dan's withdrawal from SF of AC 2012 against Chen Jin. This secured CJ's spot at the Olympics.

 

[Justin L]

I just want to add to samkool's argument about the rule, as you seem to question whether China did anything wrong. So a few points in bullet form:

• China was not the only "offender", but the worst one. Of course China was the only nation who could do it to that extent due to their dominance.
• Chinese players withdrew much more often from matches against other Chinese players than from matches against players from other nations. This is pure statistics. I don't remember the exact numbers but I do remember hearing them from someone who actually went through all tournaments and counted.
• When asked about this "behaviour", Li Yongbo didn't deny it. In fact, he was proud of it, because the fact that they could even do it was a testament to their dominance.
• Notable example: Lin Dan's withdrawal from SF of AC 2012 against Chen Jin. This secured CJ's spot at the Olympics.

If you were the Head Coach and whatever you do is within the prevailing rules...?

And you have the largest number of Top 20/30/40/50 players in every category to take care of...?

 

[Hassefar60]

If you were the Head Coach and whatever you do is within the prevailing rules...?

And you have the largest number of Top 20/30/40/50 players in every category to take care of...?

You seemed to question whether it happened or not. That is what I commented on.
Bad sportsmanship can also be within the rules. Would you do it?

 

[Justin L]

You seemed to question whether it happened or not. That is what I commented on.
Bad sportsmanship can also be within the rules. Would you do it?

You're confused, bad sportsmanship is the act of cheating or breaking the rules to gain an unfair advantage.

Talk is cheap, all of us can be armchair critics or live in an ivory tower.

OK, enough, it all started with two forummers who, instead of talking about Momota's retirement to his fellow teammate Kanta Tsuneyama, brought in unrelated issues, which led to our bickering. And no I did not "question whether it happened or not."

I know where you guys are coming from, I'm not going to get drawn into it, delving into history, one thing leading to another. Endless.