What additional tools do i need to start stringing?

Discussion in 'Badminton Stringing Techniques & Tools' started by p2user, Jun 8, 2022.

  1. p2user

    p2user Regular Member

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    I've eventually ordered the SuperStringer T15 (drop weight version) from TennisMan (Dirk) and would like to know if there are any other tools i need to buy to help me string? So far I've already brought,
    1. A reel of cheap strings to practice on
    2. grommets
    3. Starting clamp
    4. luggage weigher
    I'm hoping the tools which come with the SuperStringer would be a good accompliant and that the flying clamps are good enough? Or would i need to buy a Yonex flying clamp?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. nb5000

    nb5000 New Member

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  3. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    The tools that come with the T15 are sufficient to get started. The included flying clamps are fine, so your list of extra things to buy is spot on imo.
     
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  4. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

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    I agree, this is fine to get going for a good while!

    Other things you need right now:
    • music
    • Alan, BC, and s_mair's youtube channels to keep learning!

    After a while I bought:
    • lots of strings to try
    • better cutters (knipex)
    • grommet screw extractor
    • cold press grommet flaring
    I mean, it's a hobby, sometimes you're gonna spend some money just for the hell of it
     
  5. p2user

    p2user Regular Member

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    Thanks s_mair and thyrif :)

    I've been watching loads of videos to help to learn, but most of the videos are using the wise tensioner, struggling to find with drop weights.

    Have 2 questions at the moment,
    1. I've seen when you start stringing you pull the 1st 2 main strings - so if i had it pulled at 24lbs does that mean both are at 24lbs or its 12lbs for each string?
    2. I understand with drop weight you need to make sure the pull bar is horizontal, but does it matter where the gripper of the string is positioned? I think i read or watched somewhere mentioned the gripper needs to be at the 6 o' clock position (perpendicular to the pull bar at horizontal) to give the accurate tension.
    Just cant wait for the delivery of the machine and you be pleased to know s_mair i've gone for the green colour lol.
     
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  6. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Personally, I find @thyrif's video to be probably the best video to show a smooth drop weight action:
    https://www.badmintoncentral.com/forums/index.php?threads/stringing-video-ax77-with-ab.189306/

    You need to tension both strings separately once again afterwards. The inital "double pull" is only done to ensure a smooth start. Look closely at the videos and you will see that after the double pull and clamping one of the strings, both strings get tensioned separately again afterwards to achieve the correct tension.

    There is a minial deviation in terms of tension depending on where the gripper is located once the bar is horizontal. However, this is very much negigable imo since these deviations are very, very small. Same goes with the horizontal lever bar. Even if it rests like +-10° over/under the perfect horizontal position, this means only a deviation of ~1,5% of the set tension. So don't be too hard on yourself there.

    And whatever you do: Never ever ever ever push the lever down with your hand to get it into a horizontal position!
     
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  7. Brunoille

    Brunoille Regular Member

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    It depends on what you call minimal deviation.
    Empirically, measurements on my S70 showed that the difference of tension between the extreme positions of the gripper is around + or - 0.5 kg.
    Of course the smaller the tension is, the bigger the influence of the gripper is.
    @arundeep made some simulations that confirm these measures (see https://www.badmintoncentral.com/fo...tringing-machines.110074/page-21#post-2655378 for example).
     
  8. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    Looking at the simulation results again, I think there is a major flaw in the calculation. Looks like it uses the full weight of the gripper concentrated at a single spot at the maximum length of the gripper distance from the cylinder. Which is not representing the reality.

    I’ve been measuring the ping frequency of every single job back when I was still on the drop weight. The spread between equal jobs was within +-5 Hz (measurement tolerance included) which is nothing. And I never cared a bit for the gripper position. So no matter the theory, in reality a drop weight delivers extremely consistent results.

    My main message:
    There are far more important things to care about than the gripper position, especially for a beginner.
     
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  9. p2user

    p2user Regular Member

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    Thanks the link really helped me a lot to see how to use the drop weight . I'm sure I'm going to struggle as thyrif made it look just too easy and simple. Didnt know you can move the gripper to help tensioning. I assume for badminton you use one drop weight and not the extra one to make it more heavy?

    It's good to know the gripper position only has a small/slight deviation in tension.

    For me to check / calibrate the tension with the digital luggage scale ive got, do i just attach one string and use my starting clamp to make sure my knot is not slipping from the scale when tensioning?

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
     
  10. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

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    Thanks, nice to hear it helps people out!

    Moving the gripper takes a bit of practice, but to me it's just way faster and more precise if you can feel when to release.

    Yes badminton is just one drop weight. Two is for tennis (and you read the other side of the measure on the rod).

    Yes, just use two scrap pieces of string to tie the scale between one of the clamps and the gripper.
     
  11. Brunoille

    Brunoille Regular Member

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    Measurements are coherent with the simulations. On a 10 or 11 kg job, you can have a discrepancy of +/-0.5 kg.

    You're right when you stress out this point: during the main or crosses stringing, your gripper is usually approximately at the same position. This has the effect of limiting the discrepancy and thus the global impact on the global tensioning. Moreover the ping frequency measurement is a global metric and thus it levels the discrepancies (average effect).

    Once again, I agree! :p
    However the point is that you need to verify the scale of your machine. But to do that, you have to deal with this variation! Personally, I was driven mad by this effect... thus I would recommend to verify the scale with a gripper in neutral position (ie not horizontal!).
     
    #11 Brunoille, Jun 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2022
  12. p2user

    p2user Regular Member

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    Thanks for sharing, definitely helps me understand how a drop weight works as i see a lot more of the gripper being a circular object you wrap the string around instead. I assume there is no adjustment in the gripper because it will not damage the string when gripping?

    Thanks for letting me know which side to read - but i will try calibrating it first to see how accurate the scale is in the rod. I was thinking of typing the scale on 12'oclock (head of racket position) gripper, did you mean tie it to one of the fixed universal clamps instead?
     
  13. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

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    Not sure what you mean where you want to tie it off. Just be aware that the table will spin when you tension a string, so you need a nice fixed point. A fixed clamp might provide that.

    Good luck!
     
  14. Canadaguyy

    Canadaguyy New Member

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    Is the klippermate badminton stringing machine a good machine for a beginner stringer? Does it provide a similar quality stringjob as the newer drop weight machines? I can get a used klippermate machine for a really good price and this is why i am wondering. Will the original clamps from the machine do a good job or should i purchase other ones? Since it is a 2 point mounting machine, should i be okay to string at 24 lbs of tension?
     
  15. Canadaguyy

    Canadaguyy New Member

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    I
    I already have extra grommets and cheap strings to practice with and also a luggage weighter, any other tools i should purchase to get started?
     
  16. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

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    I suspect it'll be okay up to 24lbs. Above that I would personally not trust it.
    If you're looking to do it more than once a month, I'd highly recommend looking into a 6 point machine with fixed clamps. It's well worth the upgrade in my opinion.
     
  17. arundeep

    arundeep Regular Member

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    Thanks for pointing out the major flaw in the calculations. it gave me a chance to check it again. Infact full distance from gripper end to the center is 11cm. I earlier simply divided by 2 to calculate at 5.5. This time I realized that that gripper actually starts at 3cm from the center and rest is an even central block. That means the mass center of the gripper would be at 7cm rather than 5.5 cm. So, I just recalculated again here are the results gain. For me a design issue should not be discarded just by a vague comment on the practical scenarios. here it is not just about consistency, which can be attributed to the law of averages, but also about if you put 10kg then do you get consistently 10 kg or you get consistently 9.5kg. In theory on average it would be 5% less in case of 10kg and 4% in case of 12kg.

    dropweight_gripper_graph_10kg.png dropweight_gripper_graph_12kg.png dropweight_gripper_graph_14kg.png

    Yes, there maybe all kind of variables on real life scenario when someone drives a car on the road. But, it does not give an excuse to leave 10% variation of the roundness of the tires or breaking distance of a car.

    So, if anyone finds it is ok to continue by ignoring a design issue, it is fine. one the other hand , if someone wants to look deeper and adapt as @jnsjnsn did here, it fine as well.
     
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  18. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    No one suggested to ignore this design issue. But it's important to give it the right priority, especially if you have a beginner who is just starting off and has a number of more important things to care of first. I'm 100% pro-science and personally, I think it's very interesting and unexpected that there is such an amount of inherent tolerance in the drop weight tensioning principle. But I'm also a big fan of putting this nerd-level stuff into the right perspective and not scaring off newbies with things they can only partly influence (yet).

    To stick to this limping analogy - it's a lot more important to learn how to drive the care safely on all sorts of roads. These 10% breaking distance only matter if you're thinking about driving races or if you are pushing your car to the limit.

    Would be interesting to see kind of a timelapse video of a normal string job just focussing the gripper to get a feel for how much variance in the gripper position there actually is.
     
  19. thyrif

    thyrif Regular Member

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    This is not really the thread, but anyways.

    Nice! I did a small experiment and got similar results. 12kg at 0 degrees, with 11 kg at 90 degrees (see attachments.) I find -90 not realistic, checked a -45. The difference is bigger than I hoped. I've been meaning to make a more in depth experiment and make a thread, the other experiments were quite interesting.
    20220616_110232.jpg 20220616_110147.jpg 20220616_110344.jpg

    Lets see this recent video of mine and see where the gripper ends up.



    My quick analysis: seems to always be between 45 and 90 degrees. So, semi-consistent.
    This would suggest to calibrate the weight not at 0 degrees, but somewhere around 67...? (Or adjust my technique to pull the string harder before tensioning and ending up closer to 0-45)
     
    #19 thyrif, Jun 28, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2022
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  20. s_mair

    s_mair Regular Member

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    That's clearly worth digging deeper in a separate nerd thread.

    @kwun @Cheung
    maybe move post #17 and following into a separate thread?
     

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