Walkovers @ AE2011

Discussion in 'German Open / All England / Swiss Open 2011' started by coachgary, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    I think the original draw did as you say. But with WYH out, that screwed it up.
     
  2. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    Concur with you that redraw should be governed by regulations otherwise it will become a circus. As for 'others who prefer not to have one', if I am SN, I would object to a redraw.
     
    #82 OneToughBirdie, Mar 10, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2011
  3. AlanY

    AlanY Regular Member

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    does anyone know the regulations regarding to redraw or not?
     
  4. pjswift

    pjswift Regular Member

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    The reason why BWF have to limit entries is they know CHN won t play clean.

    Olympics has entry limit rule purportedly to widen participation but indirectly it also limits dirty play.

    Only BWF is afraid. They should learn from WTA. That s why CBA behave the way they do. Because they know BWF is afraid of CBA.
     
  5. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    There are quite a number of rule changes recently.
    Scoring system - to simplify scoring (well, I don't see how this rule change can be used against CHN in particular)
    Mandatory skirts for female players - never a bad thing, and I can't see it as something bad for CHN
    Removal of nationality clash in draws - well, a draw should be as random as possible, why should you not be drawn against a player just because he/she is from the same country? furthermore, doubles pairings are increasingly of mix nationalities which makes the old rule complicated.

    Limitation of players in tournaments is technically not a rule change since it has been around for some time, so there is no change in this regard.
     
  6. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    I do not follow F1, let's say what you posted is correct, good for McLaren but I think the Ferrari brand wins more (make it far more), and people would remember the winners more than the sportsmanship conduct.
    I am not saying what LYB did is right. Just that, if LYB did the right thing as you say and ends up losing the biggie and getting fired or to do what he takes to enhance his chances of winning and be richly rewarded not breaking BWF rules, you and me are not in his position (our jobs are not on the line) but far, far away in North America:p that is so, so easy to say.
    If BAM or INA is in CHN position today, you sure they would do the right thing? Really?;)
     
  7. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the rule was changed at the time (and now still) of China's dominance. and BWF official (Gunawan i think) specifically says it was done to increase unpredictability in results. so if China was consistently winning, and they opted to make that rule... well, make your own conclusion. :)

    that rule make sense when there is no dominance. afterall, if a country only have 2 entries into the tournament, it would be nice for them not to meet in the first round (and that has happened numerous times now that the rule has been removed). however, at the time of dominance, it seems to give the dominant country an advantage, hard to argue against that. and for the same argument, BWF chose to remove that rule right when China is so strong. also make your own conclusion on the motive behind the timing.


    i think this is just a ego match. while true or not, LYB will question the timing of these rules changes and will go tit-for-tat in protest/revenge. they can do it as long as they are strong.
     
  8. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    How about a string a coincidences?
     
  9. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    They have done "the right thing" numerous times. It's arguably harder to do "the right thing" when you're not in LYB's position and you're only two hopes are facing each other. We've seen numerous grueling 3-set battles when a "WO" would be the sensible thing or a first set winner takes it all match ...
     
  10. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    I don't know what's stopping BWF from seeding and making the draw just before the tournament starts, say at the weekend before the tournament. Chances are those who would eventually withdraw would have withdrawn by then. Seedings would be based on the latest ranking (not one-month old WRs) and exclude those withdrawn. I know BWF have done some trials on this before, but what comes of it? I feel the progress has been really slow.
     
  11. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    CHN has done her part to promote badminton by bringing in new bloods and to maintain her dominance, while the rest of the world falters and fading fast. Rules are made to counter CHN's might than to meet CHN head-on. Limit 2 players per country and lifting the rule that 2 same-country players can meet early as a control means, IMO would not benefit this sport. True fans, I am one, wanna see the best play, period. After LCW retires, there would be no challenge to CHN, limit to 2-players would bore the MS event to death.
     
  12. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    And co-incidences equal guilt?
     
  13. OneToughBirdie

    OneToughBirdie Regular Member

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    Very good point. Then whatever draw the computer puts out would be it.
     
  14. demolidor

    demolidor Regular Member

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    :D and how does that stroke with these "walkovers" ... ?
     
  15. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    the problem with computerized draw is that people will question the fairness of the outcome as the actual randomizing process inside the computer is not visible.

    kinda like going to a casino, slots machines nowadays are programmed to maximize the profit of the casino in the long term while still giving the gambler a hope of winning something in the short term.

    if i were a country and my players gets a bad draw, the easiest thing to complain about is how fair the draw was and who wrote the draw program.
     
  16. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    I have also always felt a bit uneasy about computer draws. The main issue is with transparency. How do I know there's not someone keying in the results behind the scenes? I say bring back those good old ping pong balls in mechanical devices. The draw itself can be good spectacle.

    I wonder how tennis do it.
     
  17. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    A string of coincidences will rightly arouse suspicion. Especially so, if the walkovers happen mostly when pitched against your own compatriot!... Guilt? You used the word, not me. :D

    A fungal infection does not happen overnight. Why was the player allowed to play the earlier day?

    The fungal infection must have been around for a while for it to reach the proportions of discomfort it did. Why was the coach not concerned about the player's condition and well-being earlier?

    Remember, a certain mens singles player complained of some abdominal discomfort at the MO last December, and dropped out; he was encouraged and supported by the coach in this action, and the reasoning then provided was that the player's condition and well-being should not be compromised.

    Well then, why was the same line of thought not persisted with in the case of the girl with the fungal infection? Are there double standards at work here? I think the answers are obvious for those who are really interested and who value the integrity of sportsmanship.
     
  18. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    i think the intent is clear. they want to WO.

    the injury, real or not, game stopping or not, was just the official excuse for WO. obviously, they cannot just say "i don't want to play" as the excuse.

    at the same time, they may not be lying either. the injury can be there. but as have been mentioned before, most of these players have injuries and just endures the pain if needs to. they are pretty tough. but when there is a intent for WO, they are just convenient excuses.
     
  19. hcyong

    hcyong Regular Member

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    I accept it is very probable BWF has made little steps to impede CHN's dominance, but then they are also probably doing it for the good of the sport overall. It's not necessarily CHN's dominance per se, but any country's dominance.

    Well, we can argue to no end. We cannot read into people's intentions. Like you said, we can only make our own conclusions, which won't matter anyway.
     
  20. cobalt

    cobalt Moderator

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    Well summarized! As I have mentioned in the past in other threads, it is most likely NOT the player calling the shots; the players just want to play the game, and get on with it.

    It all gets murky and parochial and political and distasteful outside the court. For some time now, there is only one team doing this as often; and it is the team that least requires to stoop to such methods!
     

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