VIDEO: what's wrong with this smash?

Discussion in 'Techniques / Training' started by kwun, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. kwun

    kwun Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    41,044
    Likes Received:
    2,066
    Occupation:
    BC Janitor
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA, USA
    and you blew my cover. how do i get an honest opinion now? :( ;)
     
  2. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    You know us bunch... we're not very
    "hak hei"... we are pretty honest and
    you can depend on us to tell it as it is. :p
     
  3. Joseph

    Joseph Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2002
    Messages:
    1,247
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Oh kwun...I disappear for more than a year and I find this video of you smashing. We should play the next time I'm home in the Bay Area, though the last time I've played was probably the last time I really posted anything here. More than 2 years? I would love to be on the end of that smash to see how much better you've gotten.
     
  4. Elisha

    Elisha Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Canada
    So what's the concensus? Racket facing the net or facing you?
    I can do both with equal amount of effectiveness but can't say which has more power...
     
  5. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    ^ On wind up as the forearm is supinated in preparation, the racket face is facing inwards towards you. On contact, it should be square on. Then on finish, it'll face slightly outwards.
     
  6. Elisha

    Elisha Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Canada
    Cool. I now just need to start jumping again. Getting lazy...
     
  7. quixilver

    quixilver Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2009
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Jakarta/Singapore/Sydney
    The slow motion (00:47 - 01:06) shows that during smashing, his body was still moving backwards. The weight momentum is not going towards the same direction as the shuttle did. Another thing is the elbow was not pushed far enough before he started the forearm pronation and the grip was tightened too early during preparation when it supposed to be at the moment just before impact to generate more "whipping" effect.

    Other than that, I can see this "cannot be named" person has a good relaxed stroke and those smashes were probably just at 70-80% of his full capability. I'm pretty sure he can do better or at least as good on the other shots. Unless he's going for professional career or tournament, he should be doing good enough to beat average players in the club :)
     
  8. Stratlover

    Stratlover Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Athens, GA
    In my opinion, it looks like his elbow/shoulder is not pulled back enough before starting the forward swing. Thus, he does not gain power from the contraction of the back/shoulder muscle and about 6 inches of elbow movement. He has good body rotation, but without utilizing that extra space, the smash will always be good, but not great. Also, it looks like he could use more abdominal contraction as well.
     
  9. Mailman

    Mailman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2014
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    His stroke is decent but he is contacting it not in the center - sweet spot - of the racquet, hence the shanking sound in some of the smashes. He is also slicing it in some of them.
     
  10. bbmars

    bbmars Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    11
    Occupation:
    Technical offier
    Location:
    SIngapore
    Actually, I find him holding too tight to his racket and stiff in his hand swing. Just look at where the relax motion is? I don't see any at all after hitting his racket. There should be a V in his and grip and you would see the so call spring effect after smashing where the racket follows in relax manner not following what the arm swing suppose to be. Someone posted LCW and CL youtube here. Check out their last moment after the smashes.
     
  11. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,818
    Likes Received:
    4,791
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    I recently made more improvements to my smash:)

    After stopping training, I regressed a bit and couldn’t really hit hard. I have been trying out a AX88D Pro 4U and wondering how some guys are able to hit hard with a light racquet. I was working with a different coach and made a couple of adjustments.

    My training partner saw me smash for the first time in a while today and he said wow! Before I had the strong smash but now I feel I have the effortless smash. What were the adjustments?

    Opening up the shoulders as the stroke starts. Recently, I have seen a couple of high level coaches talk about opening up the shoulders. I tried copying but really didn’t “get it” even though my trapezius muscles in my back were pulling back together. For some reason, I had an inspired idea to keep my right arm still and extend my left arm forwards straight ahead and downwards. This creates opening up of the pectorals and chest without the right shoulder pulling backwards. Why I think this is important is that the right trapezius remains more relaxed and doesn’t work against the forward motion of the right shoulder. After hitting, the shuttle, the left forearm can recoil back up to maintain balance.

    For me, this left arm going forward and subsequently pulling the right shoulder forward is very important and you will hardly see anyone on coaching videos emphasize the left arm. My 12 year old girl has a big smash for her age (with a relaxed style) and I looked at her technique again. Sure enough , her left arm extends out and forward and then downwards. Choong Tan Fook happened to be on the next court and said she had a good smash. He was surprised to find out she’s only 12.

    Secondly consistency. The present coach asked me to raise my left arm slightly to the left of my head to the ready position rather than have it crossing diagonally to the slightly right. He explained the diagonal was blocking my vision a bit and I think it was causing some sort of over rotation/ turning in the lateral plane. After some time working on that point, I am steadier with hitting the shuttle.

    Thirdly the hip rotation. Some of us rotate the hip too much and some too little. I am the latter. I thought I was rotating my hip in my smash but the coach said I wasn’t. My training partner also said I don’t look like I am moving my hip enough. His observation really hit me hard because if my partner notices that, it must be bloody obvious. I worked on my hip turning with the coach feeding and my training partner giving feedback. I found my training partner’s input very helpful and effective in making my hip rotation better - it was even better than just with the coach alone.

    A couple of minor tweaks were to put my grip in a slight panhandle again, and use my right leg a bit better pushing off the ground.

    The overall result is my training partner is suddenly saying wow to my smash after us knowing each other for many years. I ask my kid is my smash harder and she says yes - she definitely will give an honest opinion on me. LOL. And this is all with a 4U racquet

    If a guy past middle age can make a significant improvement in his smash, then you can to! Never too old to learn :D

    Note - I do some upper body weights and body weight strengthening. Not in a big way but regular enough to keep protecting my joints.
     
    #111 Cheung, Nov 2, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2021
    s_mair, Mason, speCulatius and 5 others like this.
  12. viver

    viver Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes Received:
    158
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Thanks for the posting. It really helps to refresh the steps (and the minute details) about the smash.

    Please don't forget your legs, they also need strengthening too. Not sure if you are following the new TVB drama on doctors?? Not enough to have just the nice upper body looks like the doctors in that drama ;):)
     
  13. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Technically, it's more like opening up the chest than opening up the shoulders. JJS did this really well.

    Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
     
    #113 visor, Nov 3, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
  14. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,818
    Likes Received:
    4,791
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    Essentially your pecs stretch. When I tried to pull with my trapezii muscles for the preparation, the trapezius is activated which is antagonistic to the forward stroke from the pectoral contraction. I think I get much less right trapezius activation and that means better acceleration.

    The other thing about pulling the trapezii together is that the upper body tends to tilt backwards very easily just before start the forward motion. Doing that means losing effectiveness to put body weight into the stroke.

    Forgot to mention before, my smash is a bit steeper and really goes fast. You know how for some smashes the shuttle decelerates significantly and floats near the end of the smash. Mine is much less likely to do float now.
     
    #114 Cheung, Nov 3, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2021
    visor likes this.
  15. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC


    Not sure if you've seen this before but I find this coach explains chest preloading and breaks down the kinetic chain very well. From the legs to hip to core all the way to fingers.

    And he also mentions the use of the non racket arm to aid trunk rotation.

    Also to get the last bit more power in your smash, make sure to wind up your racket from further behind you. I notice most girls who smash hard already do that automatically and your daughter may be instinctively doing that already. And finally finger power, that final extra bit at the end of the kinetic chain. Can also be useful to create steep angles, eg. clip smash.

    Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
     
    s_mair likes this.
  16. wannaplay

    wannaplay Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    81
    Location:
    home
    i have seen his videos before, very well explained. relatively young man, too bad he is not in very good shape to actually demo what he teaches.
     
  17. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    23,818
    Likes Received:
    4,791
    Occupation:
    wannabe badminton phototaker
    Location:
    Outside the box
    You’re slightly off tracking from the point I wish to make. I get that he pulls back the elbow - he pulls it down and backwards to generate speed.

    If you look back at my previous recent posts, I am emphasizing the chest opening. The way I am doing it is to extend out the left arm forwards from the ready position first before pulling it backwards to generate the opening of the chest.
     
    visor likes this.
  18. visor

    visor Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    16,401
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    An idea popped up.

    Often times in our intermediate to even advanced play levels, it's not how hard we smash because our foot work is often times not fast enough to get us into the proper position for a full body all out 110% smash. And also our opponents at this level are usually quite good at defending and counter attacking a smash that is not placed properly.

    You'll often see (eg. Korean youtube videos of high level social badminton games) that a fake smash drop to the middle or punch clear to the middle of the 2 players is more effective at winning points than a full body smash. Even if they smash, the good players will pick their targets carefully eg. racket shoulder/hip area or cross body. That is more important than a full body smash right onto the waiting racket face of the opponent.

    So don't worry if you don't have a powerful smash, you can always make it up with good placement of drops and punch clears and counter attacking shots.

    Sent from my SM-G988W using Tapatalk
     
    Fidget, Woesi, Signature and 2 others like this.

Share This Page