Touching the net

Discussion in 'Rules / Tournament Regulation / Officiating' started by PeterPanPan, Apr 19, 2016.

  1. PeterPanPan

    PeterPanPan Regular Member

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    Please help .... here is the incident :

    My opponent played a drop shot. It was very close to the net but it did not go over to our side. As the birdie went down 2-3 inches below the top of the net, my racket accidentally touched the net before the birdie touched the ground.

    13.4.1 : It shall be a fault if, IN PLAY, a player touches the net ...

    Since the birdie was already 2-3 inches below the top of the net, should this be considered as "NOT IN PLAY" or still "IN PLAY" until it touches the ground? Should that point be given to us or our opponent? Thanks!
     
  2. iAsianGuy

    iAsianGuy Regular Member

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    Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the bird technically is in play whether it is on your side of the court or not. But if you touch the net while the bird is in the air, but its on their side of the court, it is a fault? Otherwise I would just play a let and leave it at that, or just play on.
     
  3. PeterPanPan

    PeterPanPan Regular Member

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    Sorry for the confusion. The birdie was on its way going down and was already 2-3 inches under the top of the net in my opponent's side. So, there was no way the birdie could go over the net to our side. It was clear that we should have gotten the point if I had not touch the net. But I am confused if that birdie should still be considered "in play" or not. If that birdie is still considered as "in play", I was at fault by touching the net and lost the point.
     
  4. Charlie-SWUK

    Charlie-SWUK Regular Member

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    If the shuttle fails to pass over the net, it is a fault; if it hits the net and is traveling towards the floor, it can be interpreted as the shuttle being out of play.
     
  5. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    best to quote the rules, which is very clear on this situation:

    15. SHUTTLE NOT IN PLAY
    A shuttle is not in play when:

    15.1 it strikes the net or post and starts to fall towards the surface of the court on the striker’s side of the net;
     
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  6. PeterPanPan

    PeterPanPan Regular Member

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    Thanks for clarifying with 15.1 . However, my situation was quite awkward that the birdie was falling down 2-3 inches under the top of the net; very close to the net but not touching the net yet. In the next moment, the birdie would either touch the net or fall on the floor of the striker's side of the court. Thanks.
     
  7. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    In your case, the bird is still in play. So it's a fault if you touched the net before it landed on the ground.

    This is exactly the same as if you had touched the net when your opponent hits a bird going way wide out of the court but hasn't landed on the ground yet. ;)

    The bird is still in play.
     
  8. PeterPanPan

    PeterPanPan Regular Member

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    Thanks for Visor's reply. I was in 100% agreement until I read 13.3.2 < It shall be a fault, if in play, the shuttle fails to pass over the net between the net posts, > If the bird was 2-3 inches below the top the net in the striker's side, should that be considered as a fault already according to 13.3.2 ? If yes, then the birdie was not in play and I should be fine accidentally touching the net at that moment, right? I am still confused and will appreciate more clarification. Thanks.
     
  9. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    ^ You've got a point there... pun intended. :p

    But really, in social games without an umpire present, these fine details of the law are difficult to argue one way or other. In such situations, just call a let and replay the rally.
     
  10. PeterPanPan

    PeterPanPan Regular Member

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    Great suggestion. Thanks!
     
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  11. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    No, for the simple reason that umpires do not speculate where the shuttle will fly. It is perfectly possible that a shuttle flying under the net still passes over the net. In fact, strictly speaking, every time you hit below net height this is the case.

    The 13.3.2 fault occurs when the shuttle passes the net under, to the left, or to the right from the net.
     
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  12. PeterPanPan

    PeterPanPan Regular Member

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    Thanks for Phihag's reply. It's probably true that < umpires do not speculate where the shuttle will fly > and this may be one reason to support that the birdie is still in play. For my case, our opponent attempted a dropshot and the bird did not go over to our side; it was very close to the net and 1-2 inches below the top of the net when I accidentally touch the net. Perhaps a strong smash or drive could still carry the bird to our side when it was 1-2 inches below the top of the net just before hitting the net. But a dropshot is not likely to do it. Thanks.
     
  13. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    The laws and RTTO are written with an understanding that they will be enforced by an impartial umpire, whether certified or not. If there is no umpire, the players jointly take over the umpire's duty. Of course, you are free to play by house rules, but by the official rules, even if a drop shot is coming way short, until it touches the ground, the shuttle is in play.
     
  14. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    So, to make it completely crystal clear, maybe BWF should clarify by adding another small rule that the rally isn't over until the shuttle lands on the ground, or until any fault has occurred prior to it.


    Because given the current rules, it is only implied.
     
  15. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    For a shuttle to be Not In Play, one of three events must have taken place:

    it hit the net or the post and began to fall on the same side as the person who hit it
    OR
    it touched the floor
    OR
    a Fault or a Let happened

    Since the first two did not take place, what remains is the third event - did a Fault or a Let happen?

    Yes, it did.
    You touched the net - and that's a Fault.
    In fact, your Fault (touching the net) is what caused the shuttle to become Not In Play.

    Here, your opponent gets the point.

    Another way of looking at it is to ask what occurred first - the shuttle Not In Play or the Fault (touching the net)?
    This is because if the shuttle is not in play, a fault can no longer happen.
     
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  16. phihag

    phihag Regular Member

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    They did - that's rule §15.
     
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  17. visor

    visor Regular Member

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    Right. That's what Oldhand just went thru. Tks!
     
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  18. PeterPanPan

    PeterPanPan Regular Member

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    Thanks for Oldhand's response. I understand that touching the net when the bird is still in play is a fault. I am a little confused if another fault happened before I touch the net, ie < 13.3.2 : It shall be a fault, if in play, the shuttle fails to pass over the net between the net posts. > since my opponent's dropshot was a little short and already 1-2 inches below the top of the net which is safe to say that the bird will not pass over the net and 13.3.2 may apply.

    Phihag's post#11 commented that < The 13.3.2 fault occurs when the shuttle passes the net under, to the left, or to the right from the net. > and also that < even if a drop shot is coming way short, until it touches the ground, the shuttle is in play. > I probably will go along with Phihag's interpretation although I still think that the rules are not 100% clear on this incident.

    Thanks again for everyone's opinion. I appreciated all your help! :)
     
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  19. stradrider

    stradrider Regular Member

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    13.3.2 is very clearly written, you just *hope* its not. Read it again: "fails to pass over the net between the posts". It only counts the moment shuttle passes the net which has not happened in your case.
     
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  20. PeterPanPan

    PeterPanPan Regular Member

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    Thanks Stradrider for your comment. Your point is well taken. Thanks.
     
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