Technically no, but they can say Kashyap is injured and send Jayaram. Otherwise it will be Kashyap to go. You cannot choose unless it is like WS for China when all 4 WS take top 4 spots and only 3 get to go.
That is correct. Here is the abstract: [TABLE] [TR] [TD][TABLE] [TR] [TD]In singles the draw size will be a maximum of 64. In doubles the draw size will be 16. [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] The BWF ranking list of 3 May 2012 will be used to allocate qualifying places until a total of 38 places in each singles event and 32 places (16 pairs) in each doubles event are allocated. An NOC which has qualified more than its authorised number of quota places will need to confirm which of its eligible player(s)/pair(s) the NOC wishes to enter. [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Source: http://www.bwfbadminton.org/file_download.aspx?id=41435&tid=1 The common perception however is that basic fairness must prevail, and therefore the higher-ranked player must be offered the chance to participate, by their NOC.
Alan y how do they get to choose whoever irrespective of ranking? It clearly states- NOC which has qualified more than its authorised number of quota places will need to confirm which of its eligible player(s)/pair(s) the NOC wishes to enter. Now if you want to send an Indian ranked 200 he is not an eligible player, as you see from above you only get to choose from ELIGIBLE players. For example if you have 10 players in top 64 or whatever you can choose any of those 10 but not somebody ranked 250.
a good example is China's WS, China can select any 3 of their top 4 ranked players, or any 2 from their 6 top 16 players, or just 1 from about 10 that are ranked high enough. for doubles there is another condition that they must ranked within the top 50. for the Indian MS qualification as they are all ranked outside the top 16 they have a choice of 9 players to choose from.
Exactly so not whoever irrespective of rank then like you said before. They can't send Rohit Yadav C. for instance.
To be honest I don't think it matters whether it is Kashyap or Ajay that appears in the Olympic. You won't see any of them beating Lin Dan, Chen Long and Chen Jin.
But you cant be absolutely sure, right. I recall Chen Long losing in the first round to Kevin Cordon, a virtually unknown player at that time. So it has happened before and it can happen again.
Ajay (and to a slightly lesser extent, Kashyap) could come very close to beating CJ on a "normal CJ" day. If CJ is physically below par, Ajay could upset him pretty darn quick. The point is, manipulating results is cheating, pure and simple. Justifying it with "it doesn't make a difference" or "stop them if you can" or "just following the laws, man" is all after the fact. We have BWF to thank for this. They are still scratching their behinds. And I'm not sure they will come up with a "solution" to make the issue even more grey.
Agree with you. If badminton is to gain popularity all around the world, 1st, they need to improve themself 1st
The key to fixing the withdrawal and walk over problem lies in the qualification format for big team tournaments. Take the Olympics, If they changed the qualification so Each country can send any two singles players and doubles/mx pairs if they are in the top 50 in the rankings and all other countries get to send one singles/doubles/mx if they don't have two within top 50 untill places are filled. Put them in opposite sides of the draw and problem fixed!! For individual events it's just tough luck if they decide to do it, some people get favourable draws some people don't, some people run into an in form lower ranked player some people get bye's it's just luck of the draw so it's all pretty diluted anyway. I do think there would be less walkovers committed if the qualification process for the Olympics was changed. If China dominated tennis or if they do in the future they will do the same things as they work as a country, individuals get no say apparently or are patriotic enough to sacrifice there sportsmanship. There is no way to stop it fully as there are too many loopholes which are impossible to close unless they do something like pull the player who gift walkovers or allow easy game straight into an interview room strap them up to a lie detector and start asking them quastions like were you really that injured? Did you try your hardest in that game? etc which aint gonna happen.
The main cause with all these W/O is the extra slot given to the Olympics for being in the top 4. Realistically only China can do this, no other country has the depth at the moment. Either make it a flat rule of 2 entrants per country. Or have the 3rd place given to to the most dominant country to be decided in some fashion. One idea could be to use the Thomas and Uber Cups. Country that gets the most points (some amount for coming 1st,2nd 3rd etc) in those comps get to have 3 players in that field for the next Olympics
I don't believe BWF have resolved this issue yet. I searched for some recent announcement or release from them, but nada. I just wonder at times: do they really want to do anything about it at all?
The only way you can 100% "resolve" this issue would be to change a countries imbedded philosophy. It would be great if they could with regards to badminton for the good of badminton but how do you do that?
Badminton match-fixing scandal is embarrassing and truly disgraceful, says former Team GB Olympian Gail Emms The Telegraph, Wednesday 01 August 2012 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...l-says-former-Team-GB-Olympian-Gail-Emms.html Excerpts: Gail Emms, a silver medallist at badminton in the Athens Olympics, has revealed that some London 2012 volunteers were in tears at Wembley Arena on Tuesday night at what she called the “truly disgraceful” scenes in the women’s doubles. Gail Emms, a silver medallist at badminton in the Athens Olympics, has revealed that some London 2012 volunteers were in tears at Wembley Arena on Tuesday night at what she called the “truly disgraceful” scenes in the women’s doubles. ..."The girls were serving so far out it was very embarrassing. What happened was just truly disgraceful. This is the Olympic Games – it is not very much in the Olympic spirit.” Emms, though, said that she was not surprised by the controversy and claimed that the BWF had ignored warnings in the build-up to the event. “Every badminton tournament that has ever been played is usually knockout so if, you win you are still in the competition and, if you lose, you go home," she said. "The idea was to have group stages to show more badminton on the TV, to give the non-dominant countries in badminton more of a chance to play in the Olympic environment. “It has just really backfired. As soon as I heard it was group stages, I think it was six or seven months ago, I said instantly that means you can fix the way you go through in your draw. "I knew this was going to happen. It was put to the BWF many times. They ignored the warning signs, thinking it would be fine.”
Amezed that no one seems interested about this thread anymore after this match-fixing scandal Maybe most of us just want to forget about the past 'incident', and more concentrated on the current issue, hence the Olympic thread is more interesting.
Nope, it's just that everyone is very active on many other recent threads about the OG, where they are also discussing the same issue, in a way... very heated discussions! There is even a poll asking who is to blame. Walkovers, withdrawals, match-fixing, purposely playing to lose, etc etc.... all these are actions that go against any sporting code of conduct. Many people will condone such actions nowadays (sadly) depending on their personal allegiances. Others will actually condone it as a matter of "principle". Their contention is that the game is no longer just a game: it is a professional livelihood; and when it suits them it (the game/result) becomes a matter of national pride. There is no rational argument you can have with such people. But what happened at the OG was perversely good for the sport: A flashpoint that forced the IOC to bend the BWF's arm into taking action. Now the ball is firmly in BWF's court. What do they intend doing? How soon will they do it? Will they do enough? Will they get it right?
I couldn't read through all the posts, there's just way too many. but i think i got the basic points people are trying to make. I want to do three things with this post. 1. list all the reasons that causes this W/O issue. 2. compare badminton to a similar sport, namely, GO. 3. make suggestions on how this issue can be fixed. Reasons: 1. China is too strong. Direct result is we often end up with matches between chinese players. Who can tell me Taufik's international match record against another Indonesian player when it is not a finals match? I don't think it has happened that often. 2. Chinese system is "broken". i put quotes around broken, because some can reasonably argue that you can't call a system broken if it just produced 5 golds at the Olympics, with or without cheating. But then again, the coaches and the higher ups definitely control the players such that they are no longer individuals. People in the more westernized nations do not like that, so, it is "broken". 3. BWF system is broken. the exception for the 4th best world ranking to enter the Olympics is definitely the *direct* cause of many of the W/O's Chen Jin received. Without it, there is no reason for anyone to just let him win. At least I don't see why. 4. Badminton, as it is today, cannot be truly called an individual sport. Players cannot train by themselves, unlike tennis or golf. In fact, i believe many of the national team train/live/eat/sleep together. When that happens, there is a TEAM. (and yes, I do agree that once on the courts, it is individual competition). 5. Badminton's elimination format. An American sprinter will never NEED to give another American sprinter a walk-over. They just run as fast as they can, can that's all they need to do. 6. People's understanding of fair competition and expectation of intranational matches in an international event MAY be unrealistic. All the spectators want to see the hardest fought matches every time they sat in their prized seats. Well, that is not happening now, didn't happen before, and will not happen in the future. And I am not just talking about the Chinese players. The Chinese players get noticed because they are at the highest level playing the most prestigious tournaments. The above observations and opinions are based on elimination style brackets only. I have entirely different opinions on pooled play. Compare badminton to the sport of GO: 1. both are dominated by a few countries. But in GO, China and Korea are about equally strong, where as in Badminton, China seems to be only nation that can consistently produce 2 to 3 into the final 4, all the time. 2. both are elimination style competition. 3. I almost never hear about allegations of match fixing in GO. 4. Since GO is often broadcasted on the internet, one can easily tell how many people are watching a certain match. In the event where 5 players in the final 8 are from China, I see a 3-1 ratio of people watching the international match to the intranational match. This is where I think the badminton spectators may have unrealistic expectations. Everyone please ask yourselves, do you really care about that match? Do you really expect an all-out hard fought fight? Or, do you simply think that it is not fair to the other player who is playing a real match? 5. Finally, in international GO tournaments, players from the same country are always separated as much as possible. Which, incidentally, we also do in badminton. But isn't that interesting? We do try to separate the players from the same team. So, we DO recognize that this (china vs china) is not a good thing and we have rules setup to prevent that from happening. Some of my ideas and thoughts on how to prevent the W/O issue in the future. * other countries need to get stronger. The best way to prevent a chinese/chinese walk-over is to prevent a chinese/chinese match in the first place. * Individualize the sport. That is to say, anyone can enter any tournament as an individual, instead of through a national organization. (this will have vast consequences, and deserves its own thread) * Wait for the chinese system to change. (and it won't) * Change the Olympic qualification system. Put a hard limit on the number of players per country. No exceptions. * We can stop expecting so much. Did you expect Bubka to break his record by 1/4 of a inch or half a foot?
That was a great sumary, mapcar! ...especially for one who just got in on the discussion; and that helps, of course, in maintaining a clear mind... Re. your last point (analogy to Bubka's incremental record-breaking) I would just like to point out that Bubka did it in an era where he was assured of monetary reward only each time he broke the record. Large 7-digit Dollar deals did not really exist back then to secure his future, even for a superstar like he was. The "expectation" here I suppose, is that BWF gets it's act together and establishes a system that effectively rules out many of the avenues for "creative behaviour." It is also imperative that they establish a system of deterrents, and the ability to enforce these deterrents without second thought, if necessary. What I see now is that they have degenerated into a fairly toothless organism that is floundering in some direction that appears to be "forward."
