The Talking Point: Air Conditioning!

Discussion in 'World Championship 2013' started by gelee, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. yayachico

    yayachico Regular Member

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    First, they complain the AC being too strong, creating lots of winds, difficult to play. Which means its not a suitable environment to play.
    Weird because i remember its the leg cramp that made LCW couldnt complete the match, its his fitness that failed him and the dehydration comes after he was admitted into the hospital. And you know, even when you have a minor food poisoning or diarrhoea, doctors will say you're dehydrated, what more if you are playing and sweating for so long.. I believe if all players were to go to the hospital after a match, everyone of them will diagnose with dehyration.
    I've been to both china and malaysia, in fact, i always travel to malaysia due to work and personally, I think malaysia is a very hot country. I got heat stroke before in malaysia when I was doing a function when i was under the sun for 5hours.. So, i think by turning off the AC, it would benefit LCW more than LD but I guess LCW and BAM has the best facilities in the world that they train in full blast AC everyday. If it is so, my apology.
    My opinion is that yes, LCW lost but if people stop making excuses for him (LCW and coach included), he would be a hero to all as he had fought hard and the fact that he is one of the fittest player suffers cramps during a match proves that the match is really intense and he did all he could. He deserves a standing ovation and salutes from everyone. But this AC problem which people use as an excuse just take away part of his credibility as a hero . People around me starts questioning about his ability when they say all this reports because on sunday night, they were feeling sad for him, now they just think he's not that great afterall. So please, stop all this.. LCW will be back for his next attempt and lets hope he will finally wins it.
     
  2. bad's fan

    bad's fan Regular Member

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    Dude, i agree with you! The organizers should investigated for the situation happened in the final, to make sure none of such thing would happen again in the future. But really, to blame the organizer alone for LCW's cramp is ridiculous. Player have their rights to protest if they feel uncomfort, why didn't they? And if i were LCW's coach, knowing that the venua condition is not optimum for play, not to mention dangerous to his player, he should have protest harder right at that moment. He could even ask LCW to stop playing as a protest to warn the organizer, and at the same safe LCW from bad possibilities that could happen if he proceed. That i would call decent protest, because taking this issue after his player defeat sounds more like whining than protest.

    Meanwhile, back in 2010 when Chen Jin won the same title, some people came with 'shuttle cocks being manipulated' thread. Now in 2013 we have this AC switched off thread. I sincerely hope that next year WC we will have another chinese champion. By then, we might would have another fantastic topic and thread to enjoy. =D
     
  3. scorpion1

    scorpion1 Regular Member

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    We should appreciate LinDan for his victory. At the same time, we can't simply blame players to adjust according to the condition there. Simple things which organisers needed to ensure is good environment for the play. Did that happened?? . Why organisers did not switch off the air condition in the starting day itself and why they switched it off during last day or day before whatsoever..?? They should have left it running as usual. Definitely, players who have attained finals would have got adjusted to the surroundings (with ac) . And all of a sudden the ac is off and to ask the players to adjust this condition as well is really cruel.. I hope BWF will come with a proper explaination for this..
     
  4. Pakito

    Pakito Regular Member

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    Found a partner in crime, I'm asthmatic too like you and suffer from the same effects as cold air like you.























    juegos gratis
     
  5. Pakito

    Pakito Regular Member

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    We always hear in criminal and civil lawsuit, the term 'expected or required due care and diligence'. It is the duty of care that is expected of the provider of the service in lawsuit cases, and this does not include unrealistic demands. For example if I say you must wipe my court every single minute, that is unrealistic demand. What I am talking here is a measure of REASONABLE prudence and responsibility.
    On the subject of wind conditions, we also have to go back to the measure of reasonable variance. Virtually every international tournament has wind condition issues. You need to wet your index finger with your saliva and then hold it up into the air and see which way the wind is blowing. No I'm kidding, but yes, it's true, a little bit of wind is understandable. But what is when your standing in the court and you find your hairs on your head swaying this way and that way? Or you going to say that being a world class player, you should adjust yourself? I don't think so.


    But of course we are not talking about a lawsuit here, and there can't be one in this case. But I would say, turning off the air cond is highly unprofessional as it is expected of the service provider, being a host of a world class championship to provide proper and 'do-able' comfort and environment for hosting the event, otherwise don't be a host. Now we run into the most important question of all. What was the reason for doing so? If (big if) it broke down, short circuited, then it was unintentional. But still, you are service provider, you are still held responsible. Now comes the most crucial part. What if it was INTENTIONAL? Whoa.. though we know this could never be proven, and they isn't going to be any repercussions since it cannot be proven.

    Yes, we cannot say that the air cond issue is the core issue of players' defeat. Yes, the heat affected each and everyone, including Hoyer at his seat. Yes players are expected to hone themselves to endure heat, they are world class players.

    But the issue that cannot be deflected here is what cause the decision to be implemented? Why? Skills and stamina of a player are the variables and is understandable. Reasonable lighting, floor quality (slippery), reasonable comfortable temperature are constants that must not vary too much. A temperature of up to 34 C is still bearable, but temperature of up to 37, 38 and 39 is just like playing under the hot sun. Try playing that way at the finals at 12noon open air under the hot sun in a tropical country. Not the preliminaries, but the final... talk is cheap. But YES, it affects both players. But does that let the provider of the service off the hook? I am sure the answer is a no. But so what. No repercussions. A game is a game. A win, is a win. A lost is a lost. I am not taking any glory off LD's win, nor am I adding in any sympathy for LCW's defeat, for the cramp affected both players. But likewise, the threshold pain for one lady in labour, is not the same for another lady. Get it? Think about that.

    Will the world cup football finals be played on a field where it's grass condition is unfit for playing? Tada.. But of course the grass can't change from green to brownish and wither halfway at halftime can it?:D

    I rest my case.
     
    #165 Pakito, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  6. thekong

    thekong Regular Member

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    But the problem was players, including LCW, was complaining about the drift caused by the air-con. That was why, at least claimed by the organizer, they turned off the air-con in the final 2 days. So this was the way the organizer trying to ensure a good environment for the players.

    If the organizer had kept the air-con going and LCW still lost, I am sure someone would claim “LCW’s lost was due to the drift caused by the air-con, he had been complaining THROUGH OUT the competition, and yet the organizer did nothing! LD, being a Chinese player, had ample time playing in the venue and well adapted to the drift! It was so unfair, and BWF should start an investigation on why the organizer did not turn the air-con off, even after receiving repeated complaints from the players!” :D

    I think there is no dispute that the air-con was off during game 2 and game 3 of the MS Final. Now, the question is when was the air-con turned off, before the MS Final, or at the start of game 2. I don't think we have a definite answer yet! No matter when the air-con was turned off, I would be very surprised if BWF was not involved in making that decision!

     
  7. deca2000

    deca2000 Regular Member

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    I hate to say this. But frankly if this happened in some other country or if LCW were not involved, it would be a no-issue at all. 10 pages of discussion? I doubt anybody would even start a thread. just saying.
     
  8. thekong

    thekong Regular Member

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    I have this funny thought! If we could turn back time, and gone back to last Sat night (or even earlier), given the fact that LCW had been complaining throughout the competition about the drift caused by the air-con, the organizer came up with 2 options:

    1. Kept the air-con going and let the drift continued, or
    2. Turned off the air-con, which would cause the temperature to raise up to 36 (?) degree C!

    If members in this thread were given the right to vote for the decision, what would the outcome be?

    If I were a LCW supporter, I would vote to turn the air-con off, as I would believe, being a Malaysian player with superior fitness (that was really what I believed before the final), the heat would benefit LCW! But, of course, that was just me!:D
     
  9. pcll99

    pcll99 Regular Member

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    the Asian Games 2010 was held at the same venue, right?

    They didn't have any drift problem back then. I notice it was held in late November. I guess the Air Con was off.

    When deciding the venue of major events such as WC, T/U Cups, Sudirman Cup and SS Finals, I hope they will avoid cities that are too hot and humid.
     
    #169 pcll99, Aug 13, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  10. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    Someone started a thread on PG making a comment on court abt his opponent,a China MS,could have been Chen Long. Something abt 'Chinaman' or thereabouts which certain China fans felt was insulting.

    The video was posted in BC, we listened to it & felt PG did not make such remarks, that it was misheard by the OP et al. That person and/or his friends actually went as far as writing Badminton Denmark to complain. Badminton Denmark actually replied,lol. They asked PG, PG said he said YYY not XXX as xkaimed by the complainer. YYY was what we heard PG said too, and put it to Danish accent and language barrier(on the part of the complainer) for the misunderstanding
    Dont think the OP believed us or Denmark BA, insisted PG insulted his beloved
    China player.Denmark or PG fans, can you guys remember what was thw remark?

    Try beating that in terms of easily butthurt situation then we talk
     
  11. maxout

    maxout Regular Member

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    hahahaa ... as a Malaysian baddy fan, I am sad to say that all I can see in the final is that LCW suffered his USUAL REGULAR CRAMP in the brain when he sees Lin Dan on the other side of the net - air cond or no air cond, draft or no draft, does not matter , still cramp up there ... :rolleyes:
     
  12. thekong

    thekong Regular Member

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    I remember that PG incident! As a Chinese, living in Hong Kong, I agreed that PG was not saying anything insulting.

    The OP claimed PG said "Well, Chinaman is Chinaman", while GP actually said "One time in a tournament” after he got a yellow card for throwing his racket onto the floor in frustration. The OP just misheard!

    Sometimes, people just believe what they want to believe!
     
  13. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    This isn't a talking point, this is just an excuse...
     
  14. limsy

    limsy Regular Member

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    anything would become the talking point
    why?
    ask urself why the cba how such a low credence(or credit i should use?) among others?
    cant blame others on their conspiracy/guess/perception since cba build up their image themself with i will do any tricks(walkover,retired,fake injury,drank too much water) as long as pride and victory.

    in 2007 china open,in the 1st-4th final,china only won one title(just like wc 2013,which their worst result as host)
    the last match,lcw against bao chun lai
    with a lots of controversial and cheating,bao chun lai beat lee chong wei for the title.
    in chinese we said,胜之不武

    those who went to the stadium(more then 5 of my fb friends) on the wc finals day,claim that the temperature suddenly raised on the 2nd set
    so i guess the official statement wasn't that official anyway.
    we know how well this country twist the truth and hide the ugly.

    not that interested into this topic anyway,shall be my last post on this thread.
     
  15. LD rules!

    LD rules! Regular Member

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    If the heat increased like Some said during the second set, then this doesn't explain anything about LCW leaving the shuttle several times for it to land in, when in theory shuttle speed should increase...
     
  16. thekong

    thekong Regular Member

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    I watched the match again and really couldn't see any drift in game 1. Of course, that doesn't mean that wasn’t any! I also paid attention to the shots of the spectators, and more of them were fanning in game 3 than game 1. So, indeed it could be hotter in game 3, even though this alone still couldn't prove when the AC was turned off.
    However, if heat is the problem, then, again, it affected both players!
    If drift was the problem, then can anyone tell me which direction was the drift supposed to be? All I could see was LCW misjudging both left and right. Just look at the 2 consecutive points leading to 10-1 and 11-1 in game 2, one on the right and one on the left! Both shots landed way inside the base line (at least 4 inches), so I suppose LCW couldn't have misjudging on the length!
    Air-con or not, I think the first couple of misjudgments from LCW in game 2 were genuine, while the later ones (like to 2 mentioned above), he was giving up on game 2 and saving energy for game 3. So, he was just hoping for the shuttle to go out, if it did, good, if not, didn't want to play so many long rallies with LD anyway, when the possibility of catching up looked slim! You can also see that in his causal reaction on these later shots being in.

     
  17. craigandy

    craigandy Regular Member

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    No that's not right. When aircon was on, the shuttle was drifting faster towards LCW end. That's the whole point. It was hard to get in good lifts because the drift took it out of the back so it limited the style of play you could play when on LD game 2 side. Watch the rest of the tournament for confirmation it was a hard end to win from. If LCW had become accustomed to this drift he would have left it and it would not have drifted out like it was earlier in the tournament, It was pretty severe by all accounts.
     
  18. rogerv2

    rogerv2 Regular Member

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    Am I missing something here? Forget about who won or lost.

    Changing the dynamics of the game condition during the match without notification is not right no matter how one spins it.

    All that was needed is an announcement before the match saying they are turning off the aircon due to concerns of drift effecting the game. Would we be in this thread now if this was done formally?

    If they had turned off the aircon before the match - no issue.
    If they had informed the players before doing it in the second match - no issue also.
    Who decided it was the right decision to do it at that point?

    Obviously neither of the above was done, so yet another alleged incident involving China manipulating events, whether this time it was bad decision or premeditated it up to everyone's own guess.
     
    #178 rogerv2, Aug 13, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  19. randomuser

    randomuser Regular Member

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    3. keep AC on throughout the semifinals and the first 4 finals, and turn it off for the MSF
     
  20. ahchu5

    ahchu5 Regular Member

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