the newest clip

Discussion in 'Korea Open 2008' started by w3wmfhe, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. badMania

    badMania Regular Member

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    Wise move....hehe...I originally chose to do so...but...couldn't help but to get involved :eek:
     
  2. sysoh

    sysoh Regular Member

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    When I first saw the this video, immediately I used the scientific/logical approach to judge this incident.
    (1) Timing
    (2) Noise of surrounding
    (3) Human natural reaction

    Before watching this new video, I hate Li Mao's facial reaction. After watching this new clip, I understand that Li Mao's facial reaction was totally natural as a human when somebody threw the racket in such a barbaric/gangster way.

    Here is the story that I get as BC private investigator. :)
    (1) When the score was 21-21, Lin Dan went around the court, the surrounding was very noisy, and he only has 1 to 2 seconds to listen to LM from such a far distance after going around the court. When he went around the court, his mind focus is definitely not on LM. (Please watch the video again, then you will understand what I mean)
    (2)1 to 2 seconds is not sufficient for him to listen to what LM said. So, most probably he saw LM showed hand sign to umpire. And he hate China PRC national instead of Korean as the first person showing this hand sign to umpire. So, he just couldn't stand for this and threw the racket in uncultivated way.
    (3) LHI has not seen the racket throwing scene at all.
    (4) LM's reaction towards LD and ZB was totally natural as a human being by looking at the way LD threw the racket. The way he threw the racket is too ridiculous. Without watching this new clip, people will tend to hate LM's facial reaction. I think in this case LM's reaction is totally natural. Only coward/saint will not show that kind of facial reaction. :)

    My verdict:
    (1) Lin Dan lied. It is a shame as a World Champion.
    (2) LM's word can be trusted more.
    (3) Lin Dan is too arrogant.

    Note: before watching this video, I actually thought LM provoked LD through words and I hate LM's facial reaction before this.
     
    #122 sysoh, Feb 1, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2008
  3. block306

    block306 Regular Member

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    I am sorry if I kick up another ruckus by my following comments; however I totally agree and think this is the main difference between the M'sian & Chinese fans' attitudes and perspectives.
     
  4. vching

    vching Regular Member

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    its a matter of time before this thread gets closed :D
     
  5. azabaz_ipoh

    azabaz_ipoh Regular Member

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    there will only be two outcome :

    1. the issue dies down and people move on to other things
    2. people keep arguing and goes round and round until kwun can't stand it anymore and lock the thread.

    personally, i hope for no 1. :D :)
     
  6. xsakurax

    xsakurax Regular Member

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    haha i agree...but it is fun to read other people comment and keep on debating the same thing over and over again.It is so funny.That is why i like this forum :p
     
  7. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

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    Care to explain more??? :eek:
     
  8. yuna99

    yuna99 Regular Member

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    This is my first post about this issue in BC forum since I started reading posts about the whole LinDan's racquet throwing scene in KO08. The purpose of this post is to voice my opinions!! Not to insult or hurt anyone in the forum or any players out there!
    __________________________________________

    My opinions:
    1. Lindan is totally at wrong here. He should not resort to violence (throwing racquet at the direction of Limao) no matter how provoked or how angry he is.. And the point is after the whole incident, he did not apologize and he thinks he did right here and he need not apologize!! THis is to me ridiculous. He should be given red card and sent off the court (remember zidane's final appearance during world cup!?) It is shameful for badminton as this clip has been viewed worldwide!! The people who dont know badminton will think that this sport is totally a joke.. the player can throw racquet to anyone if they are unhappy.

    2. About the unfairness of line calls, LinDan should complain but it should be reasonably done. If umpire arrives at a decision, he should respect the umpire and the decision! He can even chose to walk out the game as objection (as this is not a violent act)! He should not react the way he did! Unfairness happens everywhere in life (in every sports). Of course, BWF must do something to curb this terrible practice in many places in this world. I think Tennis is doing a great job by allowing the player to challenge the call. I think the main issue here is how a player react to unjust line calls. LinDan definitely chose a wrong way and he should at least apologize and be penalized for tainting the badminton sports.

    See I have never mentioned LiMao.. He can do something dirty or what.. but as a player LinDan should not react with violence. We never know what Materazzi said to provoke Zidane. But Zidane did apologize for his action as he knows that this is a bad example for billions out there watching him.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/world_cup_2006/5169342.stm
     
  9. Wong8Egg

    Wong8Egg Regular Member

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    I am speechless if you like to pin point every sec as if it is carefully planned. And so your verdict is LD gone mad because he just felt like to gone mad and LM has nothing to do with it???:confused:
     
  10. Kamen

    Kamen Regular Member

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    That's what exactly happened! It's not fictional.
     
  11. cooler

    cooler Regular Member

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    it seem everybody want to be an expert analysing the cause of LD's action. They viewed various video clips relating to the rallies leading up to the incident with great detail, thinking they got the situation figured out without a shadow of doubt. IMO, this is like studying a bush in a large forest and say i know all about that forest. U think LD blows up because of 1 bad call? I believe LD frustration is built up from set 2. Have anybody analyse LM actions in all of set 2 and 3? Umpire reversed line calls 4 times, actual bad line calls could be more than 4. LD pawned LHI 19 points in a row to win the first set. This is an amazing feat. It's like LD playing a novice. There is something bothering LD's mind that enable LHI to turn the game around and beat LD in set 2 and 3. Knowing that close line calls could be called in, LHI, IMO, can play more riskier shots while LD has to think twice on taking close to the line shots while force to make conservative shots and tactics. I can hear the tv commentators and see the rallies, like, here's a nice lift by LHI for LD to kill but LD didn't kill it. It isn't just bad line calls, LD is force to play to LHI's advantage, long rallies. This change the whole dynamic of the match. Also, there might be tension existed already between LM and LD before the match start.

    I'm not saying LD throwing racket is justified, i'm saying some of u think u understand the whole situation from just those short video clips showing the LD's outburst. It like asking an expert volcanic geologist what and how mount st. helen blew up with just video of the volcano eruption, he can only understand ~25% and speculate 75%. If sysoh was the geologist, he would say he understood it 100%
     
    #131 cooler, Feb 2, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
  12. sysoh

    sysoh Regular Member

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    (1) It is important to win but not at all costs.
    (2) I agree that the line judgement has to be fair, therefore we want to see the result determined by the players, not by courtside officials. Or who can argue the loudest…
    (3) We all want fair game, but this is no substitute for proper behaviour.
    (4) Fair game is required as the players need to be confident that the game is officiated professionally, whilst respecting the technical officials’ decisions.
    (5) During China Open, LCW was the victim for the poor line calls, none of the poor line call was overruled by the umpire from China. However, he was more professional in handling such situation. (uncivilized reaction by LD is not acceptable at all, see point 3) I don't think there were poor line call during HKO although LCW thinks so. Poor line calls will impact the players emotionally and it will affect players' confident as stated in point 4. Therefore, LCW and LD might not be the loser for CO and KO respectively.
    However, LD should not think that he is still the champion of KO. As a World Champion, he should not say this. A win is a win by LHI as umpire's decision is ultimate. This is called "Su Bu Qi"
    Not to forget, LCW was also the victim of "breaking leg" incident, but did he do anything during the match?
    However, I think LD's mental strength is stronger than LCW by looking at the way they played after being affected emotionally.

    I am happy that currently BWF takes serious action against poor line call. So, it turns out to be a blessing in disguise. However, why BWF or generally human needs to wait until such serious incident happens, then only they start to take the proper actions. They can actually take action when it happened during CO.
     
    #132 sysoh, Feb 2, 2008
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2008
  13. sysoh

    sysoh Regular Member

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    I know Kwun doesn't prefer/like chinese article, but these are two good one from sina and sohu.

    林丹行为可以理解? 非得等打完人才罚吗



    2008-01-30 10:21:54

    标签:林丹 李矛 羽毛球 体育
    上周日,韩国羽毛球赛男单决赛中,林丹因对判罚不满与裁判发生了争执。这本来不是什么大事,但由于韩国队中国籍教练李矛的介入而变的满城风雨,一时间国内多家媒体都对此事进行了报道。

    事情的经过大家想必都知道了,这里就不再赘述,这次想说的是中国羽坛各方面的反应。

    首先看看乒羽中心,主管羽毛球项目的主任刘凤岩对媒体说:[FONT=&#38582]中国队不会处罚林丹,原因是林丹的行为可以理解,任何人在受到辱骂后都会心态失衡,做出冲动举动。[/FONT]
    [FONT=隶书][​IMG][/FONT]
    [FONT=隶书]你理解他吗[/FONT]

    [FONT=&#23435]请大家注意这段话里的几个关键词。[/FONT]

    [FONT=&#23435]不会处罚、可以理解:林丹在韩国公开赛上先后与裁判和对方教练发生激烈争执,在现场工作人员的阻隔下林丹同志几乎做出了要打人的动作,这一点看过视频现场图的朋友都应该能看出来,不管裁判的判罚是否真有问题,做为一名运动员,在比赛中做出这样的举动肯定是错误的,怎么能说是“可以理解”?这样违背比赛规则的做法还“不会处罚”?试问是不是要等超级丹同志真的动了手,挨打的人开出医院的验伤证明,羽协才会对肇事者进行处罚?![/FONT]

    辱骂:林丹受到了对手辱骂?我们先做一个排除法,林丹被辱骂首先是他自己在接受采访时说的,那么辱骂林丹的肯定不是韩 国对手李炫一或那个捷克主裁判,原因很简单,即使他们骂了林丹也听不懂。那么可能性只剩下一个了,李矛骂了林丹。那么李矛骂了林丹什么?国内外大大小小的 媒体专访、对话、直击都没有说出来,李矛自己说,他只对林丹说了一句:“你是不是要打我?”

    李矛当时和林丹僵持了一段时间,肯定不止说了这一句,也许是骂出了脏话,但林丹你别忘了,是你先把球拍砸向李矛的,不管是有意无意,你砸了没有?砸李矛不对,砸别人或者谁都不砸,光砸拍子就对了?

    接下来看看中国队男单教练钟波说的:[FONT=&#38582]李矛首先违反了规定,他从教练员椅子上站了起来,按照规则这是不允许的,我们上去找他理论,他就推了我一把。[/FONT]

    关键词:首先,李矛“首先”违反了规则,没错,这点是李矛的问题,他不应该从椅子上站起来,但是中国队的教练钟波和吉新鹏随后不也站起来了吗,一个巴掌拍不响,大家都违反了规则,不要五十步笑百步。

    理论,钟波说李矛先推了他一把,但是电视镜头大家都看了,是钟波冲上去后先推了李矛胳膊一下,李矛随即回推了一把,所不同的是火头上的李矛力气更大一些。

    至于李永波同志的言论这里就不说了,他看没看比赛都只会说:林丹没错,我信他。

    李矛与中国羽毛球队和李永波的矛盾由来已久,冰冻三尺非一日之寒,这次韩国赛的冲突仅是一个开始,不过就单独林丹的行为来看,羽协不给处罚实在说不过去,以后的比赛这位被宠坏了的超级丹还不闹上房去?!

    去年中国赛,李宗伟和鲍春来的决赛大家也都看了,平心而论,那场比赛的判罚几乎都对李宗伟不利,但李宗伟可没像林丹那样大闹赛场。这次在韩国比赛,裁判向着本土选手是肯定的,但你林丹打了这么久比赛这点肚量都没有?

    这样的行为必须处罚,你以为你是谁?

    声明:写这篇东西主要针对的是林丹场上行为,并不是针对中国羽毛球队,李矛是中国人,但他也是韩国队的教练,体育就是体育,请不要把它上升到政治的高度。
     
  14. sysoh

    sysoh Regular Member

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    张松:羽坛NO.1迷失自我

    2008年01月28日12:15 [我来说两句(2)] [字号: ]
    [​IMG]
    来源:北国网-辽沈晚报



    对外战绩平平、火气却有增无减——— 以往镇定自若、淡看胜负的“超级丹”近两年不知为何竟陷入自我迷失的怪圈!

    从2006年多哈亚运会输球后用香蕉皮砸电视,到2008年韩国超级赛与裁判、对方教练争执、怒摔球拍,林丹似乎再难觅往昔进退自如的从容,反而平添出几多把持不定的暴躁与乖戾,中国男羽第一人的频频失态令人担忧。
      平心而论,将林丹捧成“男羽王者”的论调并不客观。纵观国际羽坛,在技术水准上能与林丹平起平坐的不下三、四位高手,堪称天才的陶菲克、技术全面的李宗伟、斗志顽强的李炫一……林丹的强项不过是后场的起跳劈杀,但仅凭此一绝技欲独立羽坛峰巅未免一厢情愿。
      前几年,林丹的竞技状态正处于上升期,再加上体能充沛、冲击锋芒甚锐,因此能一路过关斩将捧杯而还,但这并不意味林丹的决赛能力已凌驾众人,陶菲克甚至早就预言:“我完全有信心在关键场次的比赛中战胜林丹,因为我有比他更强的决赛经验与能力!”
      林丹的综合能力在国羽众将中排位一流,也是中国男羽夺冠的主力中坚,人们往往难以平常心正视他的短长优劣,对他情绪化的比赛顽疾每每视而不见。
      目前的问题是,国外主要竞争对手已经掌握了控制林丹节奏的法门,但林丹却不能及时调整心态与战术、以变制变。当自己曾经不可一世的凌厉攻杀再难奏功时,林丹的懊恼可想而知。换言之,林丹的争执与失态,看似因裁判的不公判罚而起,倒不如讲是在冲自己泄愤。
      诚然,不具备绝对王者实力的林丹目前的心理压力实在太大了,无论是鲍春来、还是陈金,都不具备独挡一面的实力,林丹不是中国男羽的“铁门”,在形势瞬间万变的08奥运赛场上,如果谁认为男单冠军非林丹莫属,那就是天大的轻敌与幼稚。
      □张松
     
  15. eaglehelang

    eaglehelang Regular Member

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    sysoh,
    This issue, plus example of CO 2007, WC 2006, HK Open 2006, more recently 2001 incidents involving LD, Taufik or LCW have already been discussed in the many threads concerning this issue.
    All the points you posted +++ additional ones have been put forth. Some 'discussed' until the thread had to be locked by the mods.
    Now the vid of the whole MS match has been available for a couple days, in Cantonese. Read thru, you will find the same pts repeated again & again, ppl will stick to their point of view anyway.

    So, for now, let's enjoy the other KO matches, wait for BWF's action.
    Then, there'll be another round of......
     
  16. sysoh

    sysoh Regular Member

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    You are right, Helang! To me, this is a blessing in disguise as BWF started to take action to ensure fair and exciting game.
    I only managed to submit 3 posts for this topic as I was busy troubleshooting on VoIP WiFi smartphone software for last few months.
    For now, I will enjoy my Chinese New Year holiday in Malaysia and wait for AE 08 to be coming!
     
  17. badMania

    badMania Regular Member

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    If u watched the second set, Lin Dan was suffering from a nosebleed, so, that could have affected his play as well :rolleyes: So what if Lin Dan blew Lee Hyun Il 21-4 in the first set?

    Moreover, Lee Chong Wei also won the first set so convincingly 21-9 in the Hong Kong Open Final 2007, only to allow Lin Dan to come back strongly in the second and third sets and lost 15-21, 15-21 respectively :cool:

    I can give u more examples whereby players/pairs that won the first set convincingly actually turned up losing the match :cool:

    As a World No 1, I would expect Lin Dan to wrap up the match in the second set too, but, unfortunately, Lee Hyun Il turned to be more resilient than he appeared to be (regardless of whether he was helped by biased linecalls or not) and having saved 4 match points in total, I think Lee Hyun Il deserved the Korea Open title.
     
  18. Oldhand

    Oldhand Moderator

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    Please Note

    Posts 133 and 134 will be deleted unless someone soon provides an intelligible translation
     
  19. Krisna

    Krisna Regular Member

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    First, Lin Dan took the MS World Champion from Taufik. After watching this clip, I am now convinced that Taufik Hidayat have to surrender his "baddest"-boy-in-badminton title to Lin Dan too...
     
  20. w3wmfhe

    w3wmfhe Regular Member

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    LM 's reaction after a call

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Wjno0kqjQ&feature=user

    this is one of the Lm reaction during the MO , it is also against Ld , from this point of the view , Lm said he was just stand up and gave some presure to the ref . and Lm was properly doin the same thing after the call during the Ko , from this clip , i dun think Lm reaction is against the player
     

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