Thailand withdraws

Discussion in 'Sudirman Cup 2003' started by Zax, Mar 12, 2003.

  1. Zax

    Zax Regular Member

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    Thailand withdraws their team from the Sudirman Cup!

    Let's wait until more news comes in...
     
  2. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    What?!

    Hmm... that raises a number of interesting questions. Will that mean w/o matches? Or a new draw? Or even that some nation from group 2 will be promoted to group 1? If logic was to prevail, that nation would be Malaysia, but who knows... Then they would have to redraw Group 2 as well... and so on.

    In any case, a nightmare for the organizers, no doubt!
     
  3. fan

    fan Regular Member

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  4. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    Hmmm... can somebody explain to me why Sweden and not Malaysia will replace Thailand in Group 1? Not that I'm complaining, being Swedish. But I have no illusions, either! ;)
     
  5. LazyBuddy

    LazyBuddy Regular Member

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    Don't know why TH complained about the draw. To me, seems the draw was fair enough. Yeah, it's might be tough to against certain super powers in group 1. However, anyone in group 1 is not easy to be dealing with.
     
  6. fan

    fan Regular Member

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    Sweden was in group 1 in the 2001 Sudirman Cup.
     
  7. edwin

    edwin Regular Member

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    I guess this should mean all groups who were supposed to be demoted get to remain in the same group as last year?
     
  8. Xu Zhen

    Xu Zhen Regular Member

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    I very agree with you, and demoted team must be in the lower group according to IBF's regulation for SC - "Any team which wins a group (and therefore participates in the exchange described in Regulation 5.4.1) shall remain in the higher group in the next competition even if additional teams are inserted in accordance with Regulation 5.4.2. If need be, the next to bottom team(s) of the higher group shall be moved down a group to achieve this. " Thaland is the winner in group 2, so it shall be in group 1. If Thaland can't participate in competition, the 2nd team in group 2 shall take the place of it, so it shall be Japan instead of Sweden. The IBF's decision seem wrong this time. And the IBF shall modify it's decision. Thaland withdrew, who is next one?

    The IBF's regulations for SC are as follows:

    REGULATIONS FOR THE SUDIRMAN CUPƒx

    1. DEFINITION

    The Competition for the Sudirman Cup shall be the ¡¥World Team Championships¡¦ and every Member Association affiliated to the IBF shall be entitled to take part, subject to the conditions of Competition Regulation 5.

    2. GENERAL ORGANISATION

    2.1 The Competition shall be conducted in accordance with the following Regulations, and with the Laws of badminton, all appropriate Competition Regulations as adopted by the IBF and such other provisions as Council (or a Committee duly appointed by Council) may stipulate.

    2.2 Each Competition shall be managed by the IBF which shall appoint a Committee of Management for the purpose. The Committee of Management shall have power to co-opt other persons and also to delegate any of the duties to a Sub-committee.

    3. FORM OF COMPETITION

    The Competition shall be held in conjunction with the World Championships and Tthe Committee of Management will publish details when Member Associations are invited to compete in those Championships.

    4. ENTRIES

    4.1 Not later than nine months before the date of the Championships, the IBF shall send to all Member Associations an invitation to compete.

    4.2 Entries must be received by the Chief Executive not later than the closing date notified in the invitation to compete.

    4.3 Taking account of the number of courts available at the chosen venue and to keep the duration of the Competition reasonable, the Committee of Management may impose an upper limit on the number of entries which can be accepted.

    4.4 The Committee of Management is empowered to select the entries to be accepted using the following considerations:

    4.4.1 the ranking from the previous competition;

    4.4.2 standard of play (as evidenced by World Ranking lists, Continental Championships, etc);

    4.4.3 opportunities to support or enhance the development of the game;

    4.4.4 any rejection of the entry of a given country at a previous Competition.

    4.5 The Committee of Management shall have power to reject the entry of any Member Association:

    4.5.1 which contains a condition unresolved at the time entries close;

    4.5.2 whose entry is considered against the interest of the Competition or the game; or

    4.5.3 which is in arrears of one year or more in payment of subscriptions or which has any other indebtedness to the IBF.
    5. METHOD OF COMPETITION

    5.1 Teams shall play in sub-groups where all teams play each other. A final overall ranking order shall be achieved.

    5.2 The group of the top six ranked teams shall play in two sub-groups of three. The allocation of teams to sub-groups shall be determined by the Committee of Management.

    5.3 As far as possible the remaining teams shall play in groups of eight, organised in two sub-groups of four. In each such group of eight, one sub-group shall have the teams ranked first, fourth, fifth and eighth in the group and the other sub-group shall have the teams ranked second, third, sixth and seventh in the group. Some variation shall be allowed in the sizes of groups and sub-groups amongst the lowest-ranked teams to accommodate the number of entries.

    5.4 Groups for successive competitions

    The Committee of Management shall determine the groups for successive competitions as follows:

    5.4.1 Modify the ranking order established at the last competition by exchanging each bottom team of a group with the top team of the next lower group, if any.

    5.4.2 Place into the modified ranking any team which did not participate in the previous competition.

    5.4.3 Any team which wins a group (and therefore participates in the exchange described in Regulation 5.4.1) shall remain in the higher group in the next competition even if additional teams are inserted in accordance with Regulation 5.4.2. If need be, the next to bottom team(s) of the higher group shall be moved down a group to achieve this.

    5.4.4 The top six teams play in group one, the next eight in group two, and so on.

    5.5 Ranking order in the sub-groups

    5.5.1 If two teams have won the same number of ties, the ranking will be decided by the result of the tie between them.

    5.5.2 If three or more teams have won the same number of ties, ranking will be decided by the total number of matches won. If this leaves two teams equal, ranking will be decided by the result of the tie between them.

    5.5.3 If three or more teams have won the same number of ties and the same number of matches, ranking will be decided by the difference between total games won and total games lost, with greater difference ranked higher. If this leaves two teams equal, ranking will be decided by the result of the tie between them.

    5.5.4 If three or more teams have won the same number of ties and the same number of matches and have the same difference between total games won and total games lost, ranking will be decided by the difference between total points won and total points lost, with greater difference ranked higher. If this leaves two teams equal, ranking will be decided by the result of the tie between them.

    5.5.5 If three or more teams have won the same number of ties and the same number of matches, have the same difference between total games won and total games lost and have the same difference between total points won and total points lost, ranking will be decided by drawing lots.

    5.6 A conceded match shall count as if completed without the conceding side scoring another point.

    5.7 All results of any team that has been disqualified or withdraws shall be entirely deleted.

    5.8 Ranking and play-offs in the top group

    5.8.1 In the top group, the winning team of each sub-group shall play the runners-up of the other sub-group in a semi-final.

    5.8.2 Winning teams from Regulation 5.8.1 shall play to decide the overall winner and runner-up.

    5.8.3 The losing teams from Regulation 5.8.1 shall be ranked joint third.

    5.8.4 The bottom teams in each sub-group shall play each other to determine the fifth and sixth ranked teams.

    5.9 Ranking and play-offs in other groups

    5.9.1 The winning teams in each sub-group shall play each other to determine the first and second ranked teams in that group.

    5.9.2 The teams finishing second in each sub-group shall play each other to determine the third and fourth ranked teams in that group.

    5.9.3 The teams finishing third in each sub-group shall play each other to determine the fifth and sixth ranked teams in that group.

    5.9.4 The teams finishing bottom in each sub-group shall play each other to determine the seventh and eighth ranked teams in that group.

    6. ARRANGEMENTS FOR VENUES

    The Committee of Management shall approve:

    6.1 the venue, which shall provide sufficient courts according to the Specifications for International Play;

    6.2 one brand of IBF-approved shuttlecock to be used exclusively;

    6.3 the arrangements for Umpires other than from the host Member Association.

    7. FINANCE

    The IBF shall be entitled to determine the financial arrangements at the venue selected for the Sudirman Cup in accordance with Regulation 8 of the Regulations for the World Championships.

    8. RIGHTS

    All commercial, television, Internet, webcasting, audio, film and other rights of like nature at all venues, and other rights associated primarily with the event shall belong exclusively to the IBF. In determining the financial arrangements at each venue with the organising Member Association, the IBF may grant licences and concessions in respect of such rights, including the direct grant of all or part of such rights to the organising Member Association and/or commercial organisations.

    9. APPOINTMENT OF REFEREE

    9.1 Council shall appoint a Referee and Deputy Referee(s) for the Competition.

    9.2 The Referee¡¦s powers and responsibilities are as defined in Thomas and Uber Cup Regulation 9.2.

    9.3 The Referee shall have power to disqualify any team that fails to report its arrival (see Regulation 15.1) or fails to carry out its required programme.

    9.4 There shall be no appeal against the decision of a Referee.

    10. QUALIFICATION OF PLAYERS

    Players shall be qualified to represent a Member Association in accordance with Competition Regulation 6.21.

    11. TEAM MANAGER

    11.1 Each Member Association concerned shall, at least fourteen days before any fixture, appoint a manager of its team.

    11.2 In default of such appointment, a team shall forthwith choose its own manager.

    11.3 As soon as appointed the name of the manager shall be notified to the Referee.

    11.4 From the time of arrival at the venue, the manager shall assume all administrative and other responsibilities on behalf of his Member Association and his team in connection with the conduct of the Competition.

    11.5 The Team Manager shall attend any briefing meeting called by the Referee. Failure to do so may render a team liable to disqualification, at the Referee¡¦s discretion.

    12. NOMINATION OF TEAMS

    12.1 Each competing Member Association shall, at least 14 days before the date fixed for the commencement of play in the Competition, nominate to the Committee of Management the players from whom its team will be selected.

    12.2 Teams shall be required to play ties comprising:

    one men¡¦s singles;
    one women¡¦s singles;
    one men¡¦s doubles;
    one women¡¦s doubles;
    one mixed doubles.

    12.3 Each manager shall hand to the Referee the composition of his team for each tie, where the players are from those previously nominated.

    The time limits for submission of team compositions are:

    12.3.1 for the final and semi-final ties in the top group ¡V eight hours prior to the start of play;

    12.3.2 for all other ties ¡V four hours prior to the start of play or such other period as decreed by the Referee.

    12.4 The Referee may sanction a substitute (or substitutes) for a player who, in the opinion of the Referee, is incapacitated by illness, accident or unavoidable hindrance. A substituted player may take no further part in a tie.

    13. CONSTITUTION OF MATCHES AND TEAMS

    13.1 Each tie shall be decided by the results of the two singles and three doubles matches.

    13.1.1 In group play, all five matches of each tie shall be played.

    13.1.2 In non-group play, each tie shall be stopped when the tie is decided.

    13.2 No player shall play in more than two matches.

    13.3 The minimum size for a team is four players. These shall be two male and two female players.

    13.3.1 If, as a result of injury or illness sustained after arrival at the venue, a team has only one male or one female player, that player may play in only one match, and the remaining two matches involving that player¡¦s *** shall be conceded to the opposing side.

    13.3.2 If, for the above reasons, the team is reduced to two players only, either both of the same ***, or one of each ***, the whole tie shall be conceded.

    14. ORDER OF PLAY

    14.1 When nominating his/her team, the Team Manager shall recommend to the Referee a suggested order of play and, at that time, the Referee shall decide and announce the order of play.

    14.2 Any player participating in two matches is entitled to a minimum interval of 30 minutes between them.


    15. DISQUALIFICATION

    15.1 The Referee may disqualify any team which fails to report its arrival for the Competition at least 48 hours before the time of its first tie or such other period as may have previously been agreed with the Referee.

    15.2 The Committee of Management shall have power to disqualify at any stage of the Competition:

    15.2.1 any team which has failed to carry out its obligations or breaches the Rules and Regulations of the IBF; or

    15.2.2 a player, or a team that includes a player, breaching the Doping Regulations (Anti-Doping Statutes 2.12 and 2.13).

    15.3 The Committee of Management shall consider any disqualification and have power to recommend to Council:

    15.3.1 forfeiture of any payment due to a Member Association;

    15.3.2 the imposition of a fine; and

    15.3.3 exclusion from one or more future Competitions.

    16. AMENDMENT OF REGULATIONS

    Council has power on behalf of the IBF to make and publish amendments to the Sudirman Cup Regulations.

    http://www.intbadfed.org/sud.html#2001The result of Sudirman Cup (1989-2001)
     
    #8 Xu Zhen, Mar 12, 2003
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2003
  9. Cheung

    Cheung Moderator

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    XZ

    didn't read everything you posted but I agree about the 2nd place team in div 2 being promoted.
     
  10. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    if anybody is to be promoted, it won't be Malaysia as they only finished 5th place in division 2 last time. as for Japan vs. Sweden. from the words of the regulation, it appears that Japan should be promoted instead of Sweden. it does sound strange though but more thought seems to make it logical.

    IBF seems to have ignored the words and made an arbitrary decision on it. anybody got a good contact in IBF to discussion this matter with them?
     
  11. edwin

    edwin Regular Member

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    A very good way of contacting IBF is to go to http://www.worldbadminton.net homepage and then click on the "Contact Us" Option. Next ,click on 'Send us your Feedback". You'll be taken to a form where you can submit your questions. Linsey Bell of IBF will usually give you a very prompt reply.
     
  12. Xu Zhen

    Xu Zhen Regular Member

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    "Withdrawing event" isn't a good news to European before the IBF Extraordinary General Meeting. IF EBU(I always think BA of E didn't challenge IBF's scoring system at all without the support of the EBU.) want to make a success(although it's very difficult) for reform in EGM, the IBF must modify this decision and promote Japan to group1 according to the IBF's regulation for SC though Sweden maybe stronger than Japan in fact. I'm very sorry to say I feel that European have been defeated in the coming EGM by this decision decided by themselves now and I'm sure that 5x9 scoring system must be refused by EGM...let's wait and see...

    BTW, personally I prefer 5x9 system to 3x15 one because it can reduce the competition time such as T&U C,SC etc. if every game uses 3x9 scoring system under the best of 9(for T&UC) or 5(for SC) - like Table tennis team events(5x21 in individual and 3x21 in team). If so, T&UC needn't ask associations to line up their players according to the IBF's World Ranking but according to the estate of players at that time and the competion will be more attractive than before (whole competition time no more than 5 hours).

    If the reason of European suggesting the IBF to use 5x9 scoring system is above, maybe...
     
  13. Xu Zhen

    Xu Zhen Regular Member

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    #13 Xu Zhen, Mar 13, 2003
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2003
  14. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    so i sent a question concerning the decision to IBF and Lindsey was very kind to reply (very promptly as edwin said). here is what she said:

     
  15. Xu Zhen

    Xu Zhen Regular Member

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    5.METHOD OF COMPETITION

    5.1 Teams shall play in sub-groups where all teams play each other. A final overall ranking order shall be achieved.

    5.2 The group of the top six ranked teams shall play in two sub-groups of three. The allocation of teams to sub-groups shall be determined by the Committee of Management.

    5.3 As far as possible the remaining teams shall play in groups of eight, organised in two sub-groups of four. In each such group of eight, one sub-group shall have the teams ranked first, fourth, fifth and eighth in the group and the other sub-group shall have the teams ranked second, third, sixth and seventh in the group. Some variation shall be allowed in the sizes of groups and sub-groups amongst the lowest-ranked teams to accommodate the number of entries.

    According to the IBF's regulation 5.3 for Sudirman Cup aboved, the Committee of Management sould divid the group1 into such two subgroups, that is, subgroup A should be made up of 1st(China), 4th(Denmark/korea), 5th(England) and subgroup B should be made up of 2nd(Indonesia), 3rd(Denmark/korea), 6th(Thaland).

    But the Committee of Management didn't do so, no wonder the BAofT refused to send their players in this unfair situation.

    I think although the rule grants the Committee of Management to determine allocation of teams in the top group, but this mustn't mean the Committee of Management can do whatever they want to do because this right, I think, specially refers to 3/4 place in top group. It's well known there only jiont 3-4 place in the top.

    Please do everything under the regulation, the Committee of Management !
     
  16. Zax

    Zax Regular Member

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    Reason

    I'm not sure this is correct, but I guess this is the situation:

    So what do you think the reason is that the management board choose not to divide like in regulation 5.3, i.e.:

    they choose not to not divide groups by
    A B
    1 2
    4 3
    5 6

    but choosing instead:
    A B
    1 2
    3/4
    5/6

    which in this turn lead to

    A B
    1 2
    3 4
    6 5

    putting the number 6 (Thailand) with number 1 and 3 in stead of 2 and 4.
    Maybe Thailand wants a more FIXED or 'transparent' process that is completely determined in the regulations instead of making it personal decisions by the board?
     
  17. Xu Zhen

    Xu Zhen Regular Member

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    I think if the IBF modify the decision by the Committee of Management ,Thaland will be back. Very simple, why not do it, the IBF?
     
  18. Mag

    Mag Moderator

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    The reasons for Thailand's withdrawal are very unclear. I doubt they would have withdrawn if they had been put in group 1B. What is the IBF to do? A complete re-draw of the Cup can hardly be motivated, unless Thailand can offer some real proof of misconduct.
     
  19. kwun

    kwun Administrator

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    Lindsey has kindly sent a clarification. here it is:

     
  20. Zax

    Zax Regular Member

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    Withdraw by Thailand

    If the draw IS transparant, then what is Thailand making such a fuzz about????
    They knew it would be difficult to stay in group 1 anyway - why giving up like this?

    Strange, is there some more going on in the background that we don't know about?
    And what does this mean if Thailand wants to participate in future Sudirman cups?

    Who of you here can I expect to be present as well at the Sudirman Cup?

    - Mark.
     

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